Winter Chubbing

[chav professor]

Cheers Bob,

You are perfectly correct. To further clarify - I would NOT use this method to spot finicky bites...... It would be ineffectual! It would not show if a fish moved upstream, across stream, or slightly downstream, you would also avoid the sensation transmitted through a jelly rod to signal that the chub has given the bait some attention - I need that comunication.

It is however, highly effective at transforming those lightning fast wrap round bites when a chub picks up your bait in its lips and bolts off with it. they can repeat this procedure a number of times because they can easily spot if the bait is a 'free' offering or tethered to resistance in my experience.

It is a bite indication method that began as a spontaneous solution to solve a specific problem. This is at the heart of every specialist angler - if something isn't working, how can we solve the problem? We all do it, even by changing the shot pattern on a float, or laying on..... whatever.

I used to read Peter Stones feature in 'Coarse Fisherman'. Even though he wrote a regular feature - I was blown away at how progressive his thoughts were on angling. He may even just explore a though or idea - something he had yet to try but just put it 'out there'. There was certainly nothing 'samey' about Peter Stone. I have never seen Bob using bread, but my good friend Robin (who knows quite a bit about bread) is good mates with Bob and he makes my use of bread look very ordinary in comparison.

christian

 

[bigchub]

I used to read Peter Stones feature in 'Coarse Fisherman'.

christian

I was going through a few issues the other day when low and behold I found a letter by you on the letter page.

 

[chav professor]

I was going through a few issues the other day when low and behold I found a letter by you on the letter page.

I won a lovely Shakespeare Mach 3XT front drag reel for one of my letters I promised it to my son - but to be honest, when it finally arrived i was a bit reluctant to give it up........ It is a lovely reel!!!!!! (He is a very lucky boy)......

 

[iceman22]

Have to echo about not putting you finger deep inside a chubs mouth , remember seeing a programme that showed chubs pharangal teeth ,proper munchers , had a chub deep hooked other week and only just managed to get hook out , have now purchase some 10 inch forceps just in case , not tried open bail arm but might struggle on trent , tend to feed bow in line with balanced lead or feeder

 

[cg74]

Christian, a cracking article, and very thought provoking. As though I've never known anyone actually leaving their bale arm open, a mate was talking of trying it but chose not to after mulling over the deep hooking risk.

I can see the advantages of the technique but wouldn't it be easier to use a very light bobbin or does it work better due to the increased amount of line you pay out?

 

[chav professor]

Christian, a cracking article, and very thought provoking. As though I've never known anyone actually leaving their bale arm open, a mate was talking of trying it but chose not to after mulling over the deep hooking risk.

I can see the advantages of the technique but wouldn't it be easier to use a very light bobbin or does it work better due to the increased amount of line you pay out?

As yet I have not had an issue with deep hooking. This is perhaps due to using more conventional forms of indication first. The light bobbin is incredibally effective as is a soft quiver tip - especially if allowing a little slack or giving a loop of line to allow the bite to develop when nesesary.

The open bail arm technique is an effective tool for Chub that pick up and back off a distance with the bait. It is easy to determine if this is the case, especially if a wrap around bite is unhittable, or a slow tugging type bite that never quite develops. Just the other night I experienced such a bite and despite giving a loop of line the bite strike was still met with no fish.

Had I then been able to adopt the open bail arm I am certain that the next bite I recieved - which was far more tentative - having given some line and feeling for the bite..... it was still not hittable even though the fish could be felt on the other end.

I am wracking my brain here, but I don't think I have ever had a deep hooked chub using any method. I have had a few where then hook is well back in the throat, but never when using the open bail arm method.

I am pretty sure that those pharangeal teeth that comand such repect would shread the line attatched to a hook it it had been engorged.

I think to answer your question, I think that the method works best because more line is paid out under minimal resistance. Feeling the line and giving what seems to enough time that you think the fish has the bait confidently results in a hook up.

 

[cg74]

TBH Christian, I can only ever recall a few deep hookings and all occurred when I was learning how to freeline baits. As I said, I can see real benfits in the method but I'd always be afraid of the fish dropping the bait or swallowing it right down. I guess though after a while of perfecting the intricacies of the technique you just 'know' how much line to give.

Do you vary the amount of line according to the bait being used, or is it more based on the swim?

Keep posting updates of any developments.

 

[chav professor]

What I shall do is post a picture of the swim. It made perfect sense what was happening - perhaps more so in hind sight. The chub was holding up in a weedbed on the far bank.

I was feeding largish cubes of luncheon meat broken up and chucked mid-stream. It must have been coming out and hitting the 'free' feed. every time I cast the baited hook, it was wrapped round and dropped. By opening the bail arm, it gave the fish just enough line for it to commit itself. So on reflection, it has a lot to do with the swim and trying to interpret what is going on.

 

[cg74]

What I shall do is post a picture of the swim. It made perfect sense what was happening - perhaps more so in hind sight. The chub was holding up in a weedbed on the far bank.

I was feeding largish cubes of luncheon meat broken up and chucked mid-stream. It must have been coming out and hitting the 'free' feed. every time I cast the baited hook, it was wrapped round and dropped. By opening the bail arm, it gave the fish just enough line for it to commit itself. So on reflection, it has a lot to do with the swim and trying to interpret what is going on.

Can you supply an OS map reference number too, so I can get my bivvy in exactly the right spot. I've never bivvied up when chub fishing but...

 

[chav professor]

Can you supply an OS map reference number too, so I can get my bivvy in exactly the right spot. I've never bivvied up when chub fishing but...

Triffic!

---------- Post added at 14:41 ---------- Previous post was at 14:33 ----------

Whhoaa! wasn't as revealing or informative as a picture..... But would look nice with a Nash Hoodlum mega big boy bivvie by the bank.......

 

[bramfordpiker]

Great read, ...... Open Bail arm method ...... you say your not deep hooking fish, you seem to have a passion for chub fishing, so I guess if you were you would not recommend this method ....... can't see a problem.

Keep up the good work, Ideas and writing ...... look forward to reading more on the subject and if it results in landing more fish

 

[laguna]

There is a common problem with cheese paste in that it hardens in cold water conditions. An easy way to overcome this is to add a teaspoon of glycerine to a tangerine sized ball of paste, thus ensuring the paste remains soft enough for the hook to pull on the strike.

Having done much research on this subject, I can agree with the use of Glycerine (Glycerol) as a bait additive, but you first need to add a little water to the glycerine prior to mixing with your bait.

Glycerine dissolved in water disrupts the hydrogen bonding between water molecules such that the mixture cannot form a stable crystal structure unless the temperature is significantly lowered. The freezing point using 50% glycerine to 50% water (50:50) is reached at -23.0 (°C)
Increasing this to a maximum of 66.7:33.3 glycerine/water ratio will eventually freeze at a staggering -46.5 (°C)
Conversely; 100% pure glycerine to 0% water (100:0.0) is less effective as an antifreeze having a higher freezing point at 17.0 (°C) i.e. above that of pure water.
It could be argued that using neat (100%) glycerine would be acceptable as a bait additive because it will obviously be placed into water when fishing anyway, this seems to be a valid and logical point. However the cold water surrounding your bait will not readily react with or mix with glycerine efficiently enough in such environments as it would from preparing it beforehand, and the baits centre will certainly be lagging behind in solubility - even after several casts.

Glycerine is the perfect lubricant and a natural antifreeze for mixing with dough balls, cheese paste etc. and makes winter fishing these types of baits extremely effective. In cold water conditions baits harden, and will remain hard resulting in the hook not being pulled through on the strike. They are also less likely to break down to release that all important flavour and particle trail and so will minimise your potential of catching due the flavours being "locked up".
When fishing in winter on a river your scent and particle trail will be next to nothing without this all important natural additive.

Glycerine will ensure the bait acts as it might for example in summer whereby; the bait remains soft and kneadable, you could also try propylene glycol (derived of glycerine or propylene oxide) but its not as effective as a natural unsynthesised base, and our research suggests it is known to exert higher levels of biochemical oxygen demand (BOD). Biologically PG is metabolised to lactic acid (removed via oxidation to pyruvate by well-oxygenated muscle cells), so, due to low/unknown potential oxygen levels, I would personally stick with glycerine - the natural choice. Raw materials used to make glycerine include animal fats, such as beef tallow, and vegetable oils, such as coconut and soybean.

In the simplest terms, glycerine is composed of triglycerides (fatty acids), biglycerides and monoglycerides. It is the bi and monoglyceride components that enables oil (fat) and water to mix as a stable emulsion (its how mayonnaise is made commercially for example). A food particle is cryogenically protected and lessens the effects from cold environments by disrupting the hydrogen bonding when glycerine is mixed with water. Glycerine and food particles mixed with glycerine are highly water dispersible even to temperatures down to -46.5 (°C).

Search Google for: "Glycerine_additive_for-bait-freeze-storage-and-sub-zero-fishing-temperatures"

Good feature, good read thanks for taking the trouble to write it Christian!

 

[chav professor]

Cheers Laguna! There are times when I know why I still only teach GCSE science....Pheww.... Glycerine also works well on rod rings!!!

I just do a bit of science, have a laugh with the kids and then set fire to my hand!!!!!

It is amazing when you add context to science it actually seems more relevant.

 

[laguna]

Whoooooo... call the fire brigade!

There are over 2000 uses for glycerine, quite amazing stuff really.
Sweetener, preservative, botanical extraction, antifreeze etc, are amongst the most popular used in fishing.

 

[iceman22]

Went on friday 16th december for afternoon chubbing with steak and mince had 4 bites after dusk , 1 I managed to miss , others resulted in a 2lb 8oz and then broke my pb twice with fish of 5lb 9oz and 5lb 12oz !!!!

 

[chav professor]

Nice one Iceman!! I think this cold snap has really helped chub fishing in general. even better, we recieved a bit of rain in this region which gave a bit of flow and colour. I arrived at the river for a quick 2 hour trotting session and managed to bag a nice chub of 5lb4oz as well as two smaller ones around the 3lb mark.

BTW - I have never tryed steak for a hook bait. I have seen a few articles, any advice on hook bait size etc would be appreciated....

 

[rubio]

Hi buddy nice looking fish. Not one I recognise either!
I just wanted to make my own obsevation and echo a previous comment that this boy wouldn't use any method that led to potential harm.
Deep hooked Chub are a rarity for any of us. I believe some bigger chub develop a taste for fry and that these are the one's that snatch a bait. I think chub may use a form of body slam like bass often do. Hitting the victim be it a fish, worm or artificial with their gill covers then follow it down and calmly engulfing it and casually finning away. Now I should just add I never seen a chub do this to fry, but I certainly have seen more than once chub drive towards a jack pike then turn sharply, head to head and slap him out of his private hole.
It's hard when fishing to leave that first indication, but let it lie a while and that slow steady pull gets you connected often as not. And I think them realistic odds.
Only seriously deep hooked chub I had personally took a very large Mepps type spinner that I chose cos it would be too big for perch. She engulfed the whole thing first hit tho, blade an' all. She were a big ****** mind you.

 

[iceman22]

I have been switching between size 10's and 8's depending how bites have developed , conditions have not allowed me to try trotting steak yet but have been using a gripmesh feeder which allows the blood and juices to release into water with out any food content

 

[laguna]

Martin James (the chub man) uses bread or sausage meat on a size 4 or 6 hook.

 

[chav professor]

Martin James (the chub man) uses bread or sausage meat on a size 4 or 6 hook.

Thats nothing Laguna!!! that chub was caught on a size 2 lol I find it is the best size hook to wrap lead wire around to keep the bread flake travelling as naturally as possible beneath a float.

However, when i have heard of steak and mince - smaller hooks are used as Iceman describes. It would feel unusual as I use much larger hooks for ledgering from 6 to giant Korda wide gape size 2's for giant bread baits.....