Beaten up Carp

[tigger]

As for your dace, it's pure speculation on your part as to how the hooks came out, as even slack line pulled against water offers resistance.

No speculation at all, I watched them do it.

 

[nicepix]

A barb is designed to stop a hook from slipping backwards. It might stop rotation, but rotation will not cause any harm in the case of barbless hooks. A barb will not stop forward movement. If it did then it would render the hook inefficient.

 

[cg74]

No speculation at all, I watched them do it.

So how did you measure the pressure put on your line when the dace twisted around under the water and even in a goldfish bowl it'd be nigh on impossible to see exactly how/why the hook came out.....

Did they fall out, tear out, where were they hooked??

 

[tigger]

So how did you measure the pressure put on your line when the dace twisted around under the water and even in a goldfish bowl it'd be nigh on impossible to see exactly how/why the hook came out.....

Did they fall out, tear out, where were they hooked??

They where hooked in their lips and the reason they came out was because the fish shook them out.


Hang on...now I remember, i'd dropped a disgorger in the river and they'd found it...they must have used that....clever little blighters hahaha.

 

[cg74]

They where hooked in their lips and the reason they came out was because the fish shook them out.


Hang on...now I remember, i'd dropped a disgorger in the river and they'd found it...they must have used that....clever little blighters hahaha.

You must have amazing eye sight and the ability to play back what you've seen in slow motion.

 

[tigger]

You must have amazing eye sight and the ability to play back what you've seen in slow motion.

Yeah, i'm gifted.

 

[cg74]

Yeah, i'm gifted.

Yeah well you're certainly special.

 

[greenie62]

Yeah, i'm gifted.

I would have said "special" Tig.

Same comment as CG = Fools seldom differ!

 

[maggot_dangler]

A barb is designed to stop a hook from slipping backwards. It might stop rotation, but rotation will not cause any harm. A barb will not stop forward movement. If it did then it would render the hook inefficient.

Thank you someone else that knows how barbs work ....


PG ..

 

[nicepix]

Thank you someone else that knows how barbs work ....


PG ..

I've just added a few words to that quote for clarification.

 

[maggot_dangler]

The barb holds the hook in position and stops it from moving about or going further in.

I did remove the hook easily without cutting it, just turned it round and it poped out....leaving the fish dissfigured.

I've seen this type of situation several times with barbless hooks but never with a barbed hook.

Stick a Barbed hook in one of your pinkies see what happens you will soon change your mind then PS i have had to remove both types of hook from digits i know which way they travel and dont barbs do not prevent continued forward motion .


PG ..

 

[cg74]

I would have said "special" Tig.

Same comment as CG = Fools seldom differ!

Same comment but not necessarily the same meaning?

 

[cg74]

A barb is designed to stop a hook from slipping backwards. It might stop rotation, but rotation will not cause any harm in the case of barbless hooks. A barb will not stop forward movement. If it did then it would render the hook inefficient.

Very true and to go further, since the hunter gatherer era, humans have used barbs on all manner of implements such as fishing hooks, spear heads and arrows for one purpose and only one purpose; to reduce the chances of said implement from coming out.
In angling we've progressed somewhat with barb sizes being greatly reduced in size, so much so, they barely impede penetration if at all.

As you say Clive, to stop (or even greatly reduce) forward movement of a hook would render them ineffectual.

 

[maverick 7]

I disagree with the argument for forward movement of a barbed hook.....Although I am not saying the barb STOPS forward movement altogether...of course it doesn't.....However, I am pretty certain that the barb on the hook MUST act as some kind of small obstacle that will slow down the forward movement of the hook on penetration. Perhaps it is not that slow but when compared to a barbless hook that has no such slowing down obstacle whatsoever...I would imagine the difference in the speed of penetration is quite significant.

Anyway, that is not the reason why fish are swimming around in almost every commercial in the land with their lips hanging off....the reason for that disgraceful situation is clearly......the barbless hook...added perhaps with a smattering of bad angling, inexperience and wrong tackle.

IMHO...the barbless hook is a flawed design.....it is nothing more than a piece of bent cheesewire...and we all know how cheesewire works...it can cut in any direction. The barb is all important...it stops movement in a number of directions and thereby decreasing the number of tears that fish will sustain under heavy pressure during the fight......whereas the barbless has nothing to prevent it moving in ALL directions and consequently ...moves in all directions...and that is where the hook is flawed.

All of course my own observations and my very humble opinions.

Maverick

 

[bennygesserit]

Maverick could you guess why every fish is not affected even those which have been caught multiple times ?

 

[tigger]

I disagree with the argument for forward movement of a barbed hook.....Although I am not saying the barb STOPS forward movement altogether...of course it doesn't.....However, I am pretty certain that the barb on the hook MUST act as some kind of small obstacle that will slow down the forward movement of the hook on penetration. Perhaps it is not that slow but when compared to a barbless hook that has no such slowing down obstacle whatsoever...I would imagine the difference in the speed of penetration is quite significant.

Anyway, that is not the reason why fish are swimming around in almost every commercial in the land with their lips hanging off....the reason for that disgraceful situation is clearly......the barbless hook...added perhaps with a smattering of bad angling, inexperience and wrong tackle.

IMHO...the barbless hook is a flawed design.....it is nothing more than a piece of bent cheesewire...and we all know how cheesewire works...it can cut in any direction. The barb is all important...it stops movement in a number of directions and thereby decreasing the number of tears that fish will sustain under heavy pressure during the fight......whereas the barbless has nothing to prevent it moving in ALL directions and consequently ...moves in all directions...and that is where the hook is flawed.

All of course my own observations and my very humble opinions.

Maverick

Pretty much bang on Maverick .

A barbless hook will (throught the course of the fish fighting) get pulled in all directions so the point will actually make a hole inside the flesh.

How on earth people can compare the barb's used by hunter gatherers to the barb's on coarse fishing hooks designed for catch and release is beyond me mg:.

---------- Post added at 22:04 ---------- Previous post was at 22:02 ----------

Maverick could you guess why every fish is not affected even those which have been caught multiple times ?

Benny, can you guess why ?

 

[robtherake]

I fished a lake last year.
Started double maggot on a size 14, kept getting bites but couldn't hit them. Went up hook sizes, no joy. I only started catching when I used a size 20 and the smallest maggots I could find. Their mouths were so buggered that all they had was a hole, around the size of a match head. And these were carp around 3-4lb.

I packed up and went home.

Had the same thing at Woodlands, Thirsk, where every carp had the same mouth deformity you've described. The lucky ones had a "hole" (you could no longer call it a mouth) as big as a penny - and these were fish of 3-6 lbs.

 

[maggot_dangler]

I disagree with the argument for forward movement of a barbed hook.....Although I am not saying the barb STOPS forward movement altogether...of course it doesn't.....However, I am pretty certain that the barb on the hook MUST act as some kind of small obstacle that will slow down the forward movement of the hook on penetration. Perhaps it is not that slow but when compared to a barbless hook that has no such slowing down obstacle whatsoever...I would imagine the difference in the speed of penetration is quite significant.

Anyway, that is not the reason why fish are swimming around in almost every commercial in the land with their lips hanging off....the reason for that disgraceful situation is clearly......the barbless hook...added perhaps with a smattering of bad angling, inexperience and wrong tackle.

IMHO...the barbless hook is a flawed design.....it is nothing more than a piece of bent cheesewire...and we all know how cheesewire works...it can cut in any direction. The barb is all important...it stops movement in a number of directions and thereby decreasing the number of tears that fish will sustain under heavy pressure during the fight......whereas the barbless has nothing to prevent it moving in ALL directions and consequently ...moves in all directions...and that is where the hook is flawed.

All of course my own observations and my very humble opinions.

Maverick

The chances are that most of the torn lips an commie carp are due to the yank em out merchants that are using massive barbed hooks and QIC to drag em out just to make sure they get that picture of them holding the monster with little or no regards for the damage done in the process ..

PG ..


PS QIC == Quater Inch Cable

 

[thecrow]

The chances are that most of the torn lips an commie carp are due to the yank em out merchants that are using massive barbed hooks and QIC to drag em out

Is that something you know or just surmised? all I know is that on syndicates where stock levels are lower than commies because getting anglers through the gate is lower on the list of priorities the fish are in good condition and all syndicates I have belonged to for the last 15 years have had a barbed only rule, if ever the anti's wanted a stick to beat us round the head with some commies provide that stick, the fish are overcrowded hungry and caught far to often, the damage comes from that not barbed hooks.

 

[tigger]

The chances are that most of the torn lips an commie carp are due to the yank em out merchants that are using massive barbed hooks and QIC to drag em out just to make sure they get that picture of them holding the monster with little or no regards for the damage done in the process ..

PG ..


PS QIC == Quater Inch Cable

Strange how it only seems to happen on babless obly venues.

I think the problem is starting to dawn on some commercial owners as they're changing the rule to barbed hooks only !