Stick float or Waggler for rivers?

[Molehill]

As a matter of course whenever I fish a running water I use a stick float and waggler for stillwaters, I have never considered a waggler on rivers.

Now I know that a waggler is used on running waters and often the choice of float for far more experienced river anglers than myself, so my question is:

When, where and why do you chose to waggle rather than stick on rivers? What are all the little clues when you arrive on the water that condition your choice of this float?

I'm guessing deep slow rivers lend themselves more to waggler, maybe downstream winds? There must be more, sometimes I read of an angler changing from a stick to a waggler during the day, why I wonder?

 

[flightliner]

My river is Tidal, perfect for a stick when hi but having dropped the fish move out(most times) to deeper water , that's when I change to a waggler.
Deep water to far to fish a stick and wading not possible, waggler.
Fish hugging bottom and won't come up in the water to feed and need it presented slowly either or on that one but if one is slow or nothing happening definitely try the other- be prepared with waggler to drag bottom with as much as three or four foot of xtra depth if really hard going, it's often my "get out of jail"card on a really hard day!
Fish on a very slow river feeding well just below the surface, other or but my preference is waggler but if narrow a stick.
A minor consideration could be trees , vegetation or very hi banks behind you with long grass and weeds behind you that could impair casting long distances.

Generally, no favourite, it can cost fish if to pedantic.

 

[Mark Wintle]

A waggler can give you extra range, different presentation, less splash on the strike - especially in shallow water, the ability to catch on the drop or beat adverse winds/surface skim, good for catching up in the water.

I learnt the basics in 1977 on a tidal river that flowed both ways but have since found it a useful weapon in all sorts of circumstances.

 

[tigger]

I think the biggest advantage the waggler has over a top and bottom float is the distance when casting.
Personally for the biggest part I prefer a bolo style float over both the stick float and waggler float. Imo the bolo is a far more versatile float which gives much better control than either of the other options....jmo.

 

[sam vimes]

Even though I spend an inordinate amount of time trotting, I don't recall the last time I used a genuine stick float. They are nigh on useless in the fast flowing, turbulent, river stretches I fish. In a similar vein, I rarely fish the waggler for the same reasons. When fishing a wider, more uniform and calmer stretch, I may select a waggler, especially if I want to fish the far side, or if the wind direction is causing presentation issues with a top and bottom float.

 

[rob48]

If the wind won't let me hold a stick float as far out as I think the fish are the waggler goes out instead. Sometimes I'll fish a light waggler on the stick line if the fish want it run at them or are feeding at different levels.
It's important to cast the waggler downstream of your position to give yourself time to line it up for a decent run at the feed area.

 

[Peter Jacobs]

When deciding on a stick float or the waggler then the wind strength and direction is away a consideration. It is best to have the wind over your shoulder.

I don't mind an upstream wind but a downstream wind makes waggler fishing more difficult so then the stick float is better to my mind.

 

[Keith M]

I use a top and bottom attached float (stick/Avon/balsa etc.) when I’m trotting on medium to fast paced streams and small rivers which flow erratically and have varying depths which could cause a waggler to continually dip under as the hook touches the bottom or enters some turbulence. However If there’s a strong downstream wind causing unwanted downwind bows in my line which are forcing my float to race, or I’m fishing a much larger river like the Thames (often at range) where there’s usually a slowish steady flow or I am fishing a slow moving canal then I much prefer to use a waggler whenever it’s possible.

Of course this is not set in stone and it depends on the conditions I find on the day.

Keith

 

[Neil Maidment]

Mark W. sums up the benefits of fishing a waggler (or any bottom only float) very well. Try it!

I've returned to the waggler and/or Trent Trotter style much more over the last few years particularly when I think my normal autumn/winter balsa trotting with various bulk shotting for chub is not working. Others refer to "shot shy chub" and I've watched the little darlings quietly drift apart as the shot goes through! Switching to a bottom only float, be that a waggler or a short dumpy effort with very little or even no shot down, can solve that problem extremely well. The collapsing float on the strike certainly causes a lot less surface disturbance and the resulting underwater movement doesn't usually cause any issues.



Trent Trotter (as in most of the tatty bits of balsa/cane/quill in the lower tray in the following image) fishing is a bit of a blast from the past for me but it has been highly successful on very shallow fast runs on my local Stour and Avon.

 

[Molehill]

There's obviously a case for me to have a few wagglers in my river float tube and only one way to learn when to use them - experiment with them.

This has given me some ideas anyway, as it is something I have never really seen explained, usually just "I took the stick float off (I'm referring to stick float as any version of top and bottom attachment) and put on a waggler".

 

[tigger]

One point about a bolo or avon, or any other float for that matter is that you don't have to fish a bulk of shot low down the line, you can string out shirt button, put your bulk directly below the float etc etc.
It seems that many people think you have to fish a bulk when using a bolo, avon or chubber float and that isn't the case.

 

[ian g]

Interesting thread , Neil do you fish Trent trotters top and bottom? Thanks

 

[Neil Maidment]

Interesting thread , Neil do you fish Trent trotters top and bottom? Thanks

No, bottom only, typically bulked shot around the float with a single dropper down. Very effective on the shallows and at distance. It's amazing what you can still hit even with a big bow in the line

 

[ian g]

Thanks Neil , sound good for upper Severn later in the year.

 

[Mark Wintle]

There's obviously a case for me to have a few wagglers in my river float tube and only one way to learn when to use them - experiment with them.

This has given me some ideas anyway, as it is something I have never really seen explained, usually just "I took the stick float off (I'm referring to stick float as any version of top and bottom attachment) and put on a waggler".

Experimentation is the way forward. Keep it simple and find somewhere easy to fish with a good head of dace, roach or small chub - plenty of bites - and a favourable wind to start with rather than a howling downstreamer. Make sure there's a gap between the locking shot of at least 1/2", no more than 1", and strike with a gentle sweep rather than the sharper upwards strike from using top-and-bottom floats. To start with try floats taking locking shot of 5BB, 3AAA or 4AAA, with no. 8s or 6s strung out down the line. You will be amazed how little shot you can get away with down the line. Learn to look for bites on the drop. If possible get an experienced waggler angler to show you the ropes. Ignore the diversions on this thread about bolo floats, Trent trotters etc. - well-meant but hardly helpful. My 'bible' when starting waggler fishing was the long out of print World Class Match Fishing by Kevin Ashurst. This book was easy to find very cheaply but now seems rare and hard to find. I'm sure there are some free videos on YouTube that'll fit the bill though. What river are you trying to fish a waggler on?

 

[Molehill]

River Severn probably, above or below Shrewsbury area generally. I've trotted for grayling for donkeys years (upper river) in autumn, occasional chub and barbel trotting, but about 3 years ago started enjoying trotting for the smaller species.

There's a few swims or river conditions where I fish and thought "I wonder if this is where another angler would use a waggler"? I want to expand my available armoury of methods and understand when to use them, rather than carry on for ever doing the same regardless.

My main limiting factor is time on the river, being a distance away a trip a fortnight through summer is average, hence I want to learn a bit of theory first!

 

[tigger]

Ignore the diversions on this thread about bolo floats, Trent trotters etc. - well-meant but hardly helpful.

The title of this thread is "stick float or waggler for rivers".
It doesn't ask "how to use a waggler float on rivers does it"?

I'm curious how comments about bolo's, trent trotters etc isn't helpfull?
Other people besides yourself float fish on rivers Mark and they have their own opinions. Telling someone to ignore them isn't nice now is it?

 

[bracket]

I first recall the waggler being used on the Trent way back in the late 1960's early 70's (I think) at the time the standard approach on the Notts Fed open matches was: stick float, three pint of casters and a mustard fine wire hook. Then Trentman angler Johnny Rolfe started fishing the waggler, primarily to fish beyond the stick float line and got results. It turned out not to be a "Flash in the Pan" and developed into on accepted method on the River. The additional bonus, which has already been discussed, is the benefits of using a waggler in adverse weather conditions, ie a downgate wind. In those days it was normal to put up two rods, one with the stick and the other the waggler. Should the weather deteriorate the stick rod went up the bank and you ran the waggler through on the same line. Pete.

 

[flightliner]

Pete, you mention Mustad hooks being used by the Notts anglers.
Any substance in the story of a favoured pattern that was discontinued caused a bit of distress , then one enterprising Notts guy found what was thought to be the only ones left in the country and kept them all to himself ?

 

[Neil Maidment]

"Then Trentman angler Johnny Rolfe started fishing the waggler, primarily to fish beyond the stick float line and got results. It turned out not to be a "Flash in the Pan" and developed into on accepted method on the River. The additional bonus, which has already been discussed, is the benefits of using a waggler in adverse weather conditions, ie a downgate wind. In those days it was normal to put up two rods, one with the stick and the other the waggler. Should the weather deteriorate the stick rod went up the bank and you ran the waggler through on the same line."

I can recall various highlights from a number of trips to the Trent. In the late 1970's and well into the 1980's when we were travelling for the occasional National and also the matches organised for our bank championship. Mark Wintle, I and others travelled up there a few times, it was a long way and a different world from our native Dorset.

One early trip to Burton Joyce saw me "practising" in the field below the road stretch and catching quite well on the stick. That line dried up and so out went the waggler to a line further out and I soon started catching.

That was a rare occasion when the predetermined tactics, probably gleaned from the AT &/or AM, actually worked as previously described! Needless to say, they didn't work so well on match day and I ended up scratching around for bits from anywhere I could find them.

Good times and definite adventures a long way from the south coast.