Bargains. Let us know.

[@Clive]

The ones without hollow tips sound like whips - fished with a long line for small fish and cushioning shock with just their flexibility.
There are general guidelines for matching line to elastic. The picture is complicated by the differences between solid, hollow and so-called hybrid elastics, and by the extra dimension of puller kits used to shorten softer elastics while playing fish.

Do you have a particular scenario in mind, Clive, for your 3lb hooklength example? If you do, it would be possible to answer more specifically what would be a balanced set up.

Kev, I am looking purely at dropping a bait into places that cannot be accessed by a running line. Holes in weed beds, over marginal weed, close to snags, that sort of thing. I'm thinking perch and crucians, not barbel or carp so a 3lb bottom is all I would expect to use.

As you say; the whole issue of what to choose is complicated by the variations available. Given that much of my fishing is done in places where there isn't room to ship long sections of pole and I want to be able to fish off an ordinary seat box, not something that looks like a satellite, I'm not going the whole Bob Nudd.

 

[@Clive]

This what I was looking at. I can get it for around £85

Ultimate Superior Match Pole

Discover the Ultimate Superior Match Pole. Ultimate offers a complete range for the angler.

ultimateangling.com

 

[nottskev]

Kev, I am looking purely at dropping a bait into places that cannot be accessed by a running line. Holes in weed beds, over marginal weed, close to snags, that sort of thing. I'm thinking perch and crucians, not barbel or carp so a 3lb bottom is all I would expect to use.

As you say; the whole issue of what to choose is complicated by the variations available. Given that much of my fishing is done in places where there isn't room to ship long sections of pole and I want to be able to fish off an ordinary seat box, not something that looks like a satellite, I'm not going the whole Bob Nudd.

I've been a fan of pole fishing since..... well, since before they were available. I first adapted a cheapo 6m telescopic whip, used with a long line and a scrap of peacock, to let me fish over a nearside canal runner to a reed bed that was otherwise unfishable with a float. In 1978 I bought an import French take apart pole and put that to all kinds of uses. Looking back, it was rubbish, but it opened up possibilities. I fish all the other methods, too, but I wouldn't be without poles.

I fish off an ordinary small seatbox. No footplate, no rollers (I rarely fish beyond 9 or 10m and a holdall on the ground serves) and none of the other paraphernalia - roosts, rests etc. I have trays of rigs I make up myself, but on any day I'll only need one or two, and you soon figure out what you need for a particular water/swim. I often hear the objection from anglers who never tried it that pole fishing is too complicated, gear-heavy, cumbersome etc etc. I can honestly say there is no simpler, "cleaner", more minimal way to fish and unbeatably effective in many circumstances.

That's the basic set up. The side tray and nets make it look like there's more to it than there is. The pole's slid back across a rod bag behind me. Two top kits and a cupping kit to feed with are laid on the bank to the left.


For your perch and crucians, given you mention weedy, snaggy spots, I'd think a no. 8 or 10 solid elastic would suit. If you fit the type of bung with a tensioner built in - you can wrap/unwrap the elastic around it to increase or decrease the tension - you can adjust your elastic to what works with the size of fish/swim features. This one is a neat little model with a Middy 6-8 elastic in - a very versatile elastic, I find, but way too stretchy for what you describe.

 

[@Clive]

Sorry Kev, but I just don't get it.

8 -10 elastic = 1.4mm green according to Matrix and to be used with 20 to 16 hooks and hook links of 0.08 to 0.12. But 3lb hook links are half as wide again as the strongest diameter suggested. Yet Preston show size 8 as being 1.25mm which is going to be even more stretchy, and black, not green.

They don't make it easy.

 

[nottskev]

Sorry Kev, but I just don't get it.

8 -10 elastic = 1.4mm green according to Matrix and to be used with 20 to 16 hooks and hook links of 0.08 to 0.12. But 3lb hook links are half as wide again as the strongest diameter suggested. Yet Preston show size 8 as being 1.25mm which is going to be even more stretchy, and black, not green.

They don't make it easy.

Sorry Clive - the more I explain the worse it gets! I did say the availability of three types these days - solid, hollow and hybrid - complicates things. Each performs differently and there's only the roughest of size standardisation across brands. I also said you should try a solid elastic, the sort that came out first. That's the bread and butter, no nonsense, least stretchy and best suited to stopping fish from weed, snags etc. The Matrix one you looked at is what they call "hybrid" - it's very very stretchy and you need to use it with a puller kit or else you would end up with the pole up in the air and the fish somewhere out in the lake. In case that's not s'thing you're familiar with, the puller kit idea is: a bushed hole on the pole wall where you break it down, usually around 6ft from the tip, lets you grab the bottom end of the elastic and pull if out, shortening it to bring the fish close. It's designed to let people use light gear for match carp, avoid breaks or hook pulls and then draw the fish back. We can forget about all that for now.

In addition, when you're looking at stuff made for the match market, you need to factor in that they probably refer to relatively new hi-tech, pre-stretched lines. where a .12 is indeed likely to be 3lb, if not stronger. See the stuff below

I'd suggest you try something like Preston Slip Elastic in 8 or 10, adjust the tension as I suggested earlier and use it with whatever you prefer for your 3lb line - either an old-school standard mono, or something like the Dave Harrell stuff above, which makes great pole rigs and hooklengths, being thin and reliably strong.



Btw, that Matrix stuff you bumped into - the green one in 8-10 - is actually brilliant stuff, but not what you're after. I fish a woodland pool with a funny mix of fish: bream averaging 4lb, some big ide and a smattering of barbel that grow to about 5lb. When I used an elastic soft enough not to bump bream or drag them up splashing, the barbel just sped off and never came back, usually bottoming out the elastic then ping. Use an elastic that can handle barbel, and I'd bump and lose bream off the hook. I fitted a puller kit and the Matrix green, and it accommodates both species. But you need clear water and few snags - a barbel will often plough off into the distance and you have to slowly recover the elastic via the puller. Here's two fish from the same session

 

[Golden Eagle]

Thanks for looking, that is really useful, I have had a look and I am not sure which one, they do a 20mm side carp, the one in your picture, they also do a "pole fishing power top 2 kit with size 16 elastic fitted" this is £34.25 and this one is 18mm, what would be best for say for river roach and chub(the chub rarely go over 4lb) and my pole. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125470525787?hash=item1d36a0495b:g:RL4AAOSwD1xi~juX&amdata=enc:AQAHAAAAoP/5I3asKnZU8jkRS9MZZ05FGTXDCrFanr9HSJea4sH+6t98tNDf8o4q+pW4wlLqVMunBGCh0JMbiI5cc2S6/2ri7w59eYNrpQJQ/2qjOj6RAL6wZuimE6Oa1BNijeExgJS3CsaVkoSJiMZ8bksME6ej2TkUhl1nupMXOv/hob3p9HkPOef63JIK6gfQscoUJC89NTvEkn3p9Uv0dvao5aQ=|tkp:Bk9SR8rmto2nYQ

The ‘20mm’ etc refers to the diameter of the section. You buy one and cut it back to fit onto the third section of your pole, so you would need to measure that first. This measurement is totally unrelated to the elastic strength.

A good elastic for fish up to 4lb max would be something like an 8 rated, though elastics vary by type and by manufacturer. As a match fisherman who fishes commercials for mainly carp I never go as heavy as a size 16 elastic and this would be too much for your silvers fishing in my opinion.

 

[no-one in particular]

The ‘20mm’ etc refers to the diameter of the section. You buy one and cut it back to fit onto the third section of your pole, so you would need to measure that first. This measurement is totally unrelated to the elastic strength.

A good elastic for fish up to 4lb max would be something like an 8 rated, though elastics vary by type and by manufacturer. As a match fisherman who fishes commercials for mainly carp I never go as heavy as a size 16 elastic and this would be too much for your silvers fishing in my opinion.

Thanks for that, I will get this set up before the weather improves and give it a go. Some bits of the river stretches I fish may have never seen a bait, hardly anyone fishes them anyway, let alone with a pole. I have fished one stretch for 20 odd years, be interesting to poke a bait in some of those inaccessible spots.

 

[@Clive]

Sorry Clive - the more I explain the worse it gets! I did say the availability of three types these days - solid, hollow and hybrid - complicates things. Each performs differently and there's only the roughest of size standardisation across brands. I also said you should try a solid elastic, the sort that came out first. That's the bread and butter, no nonsense, least stretchy and best suited to stopping fish from weed, snags etc. The Matrix one you looked at is what they call "hybrid" - it's very very stretchy and you need to use it with a puller kit or else you would end up with the pole up in the air and the fish somewhere out in the lake. In case that's not s'thing you're familiar with, the puller kit idea is: a bushed hole on the pole wall where you break it down, usually around 6ft from the tip, lets you grab the bottom end of the elastic and pull if out, shortening it to bring the fish close. It's designed to let people use light gear for match carp, avoid breaks or hook pulls and then draw the fish back. We can forget about all that for now.

In addition, when you're looking at stuff made for the match market, you need to factor in that they probably refer to relatively new hi-tech, pre-stretched lines. where a .12 is indeed likely to be 3lb, if not stronger. See the stuff below

View attachment 25455

I'd suggest you try something like Preston Slip Elastic in 8 or 10, adjust the tension as I suggested earlier and use it with whatever you prefer for your 3lb line - either an old-school standard mono, or something like the Dave Harrell stuff above, which makes great pole rigs and hooklengths, being thin and reliably strong.



Btw, that Matrix stuff you bumped into - the green one in 8-10 - is actually brilliant stuff, but not what you're after. I fish a woodland pool with a funny mix of fish: bream averaging 4lb, some big ide and a smattering of barbel that grow to about 5lb. When I used an elastic soft enough not to bump bream or drag them up splashing, the barbel just sped off and never came back, usually bottoming out the elastic then ping. Use an elastic that can handle barbel, and I'd bump and lose bream off the hook. I fitted a puller kit and the Matrix green, and it accommodates both species. But you need clear water and few snags - a barbel will often plough off into the distance and you have to slowly recover the elastic via the puller. Here's two fish from the same session

View attachment 25457

View attachment 25459

Thanks for the advice Kev. I really do appreciate it, but the more I look into this the less sense I can make out of it. No two companies offer advice regards line stregths for pole elastics. The bungs come in small, medium and large with no reference to what that relates to. Same with bushes. They give a diameter, but of what? Internal or external diameter? The connectors are different colours and one company refers this colour to the colour of their hollow elastic, but the solid elastic in that colour is a different size. And now I learn that I might have to wind the fish in using an adaper bung! Isn't that what a reel was designed to do?

I'm going to save myself a hundred and fifty quid and carry on casting.

Thanks for your time, but I am obviously too thick to use one of these simple devices.

 

[nottskev]

Thanks for the advice Kev. I really do appreciate it, but the more I look into this the less sense I can make out of it. No two companies offer advice regards line stregths for pole elastics. The bungs come in small, medium and large with no reference to what that relates to. Same with bushes. They give a diameter, but of what? Internal or external diameter? The connectors are different colours and one company refers this colour to the colour of their hollow elastic, but the solid elastic in that colour is a different size. And now I learn that I might have to wind the fish in using an adaper bung! Isn't that what a reel was designed to do?

I'm going to save myself a hundred and fifty quid and carry on casting.

Thanks for your time, but I am obviously too thick to use one of these simple devices.

It's a market saturated with same-but-different products in confusing measurements - if you know what you want, you just ignore it all, but coming to it new would be baffling. Once you have a pole that will do, 20 mins in a decent tackle shop ( or my shed where I have enough spare bits and elastics to rig up a dozen poles) would see you sorted. As in, I want a bush and a bung to fit this top kit and an elastic suitable to fish 3 or 4lb hooklengths for perch and crucians.

The puller kit business is a canard and can be ignored. They were developed in the wake of the commercial carp explosion, when anglers needed to land fish of a size previously not on the pole fishing menu. I pole fished for 40 years without them, and most of my pole fishing is still done with old-school fixed elastic.

 

[@Clive]

It's a market saturated with same-but-different products in confusing measurements - if you know what you want, you just ignore it all, but coming to it new would be baffling. Once you have a pole that will do, 20 mins in a decent tackle shop ( or my shed where I have enough spare bits and elastics to rig up a dozen poles) would see you sorted. As in, I want a bush and a bung to fit this top kit and an elastic suitable to fish 3 or 4lb hooklengths for perch and crucians.

The puller kit business is a canard and can be ignored. They were developed in the wake of the commercial carp explosion, when anglers needed to land fish of a size previously not on the pole fishing menu. I pole fished for 40 years without them, and most of my pole fishing is still done with old-school fixed elastic.

There are no local shops that are run by pole anglers. It is all carp and predators. I only wanted an option for maybe half a dozen times a year, but am not going down the aluminium station, pole rollers route even if I was bright enough to negotiate the contradictory and confusing sales hype complicating the simple task of putting some elastic inside one section of a pole. The one I took to Cyprus came ready rigged and didn't need touching for 12 years. Things seem to have moved on and left me behind.

 

[sam vimes]

Much like numbers assigned to reels and rather arbitrary hook sizes, the colour of elastics gives no indication of rating/strength outside of the single range it comes from. The same brand may use totally different colours in a different range of their own elastics. A green elastic might be anything from incredibly light to ridiculously strong (and anywhere in between. There's no standard whatsoever and assuming there is only makes things more difficult.

 

[no-one in particular]

I bought my own elastic, 2 meters for £1.20 from the local haberdashery shop. At least I was able to stretch it and work out it properties which seem just about right, the rest I will work out later, cant be that difficult, or can it!!.

 

[@Clive]

I bought my own elastic, 2 meters for £1.20 from the local haberdashery shop. At least I was able to stretch it and work out it properties which seem just about right, the rest I will work out later, cant be that difficult, or can it!!.

Now all you need is a bung, bush and connector. And for that you need thde diameters of the pole and elastic.

 

[no-one in particular]

Now all you need is a bung, bush and connector. And for that you need thde diameters of the pole and elastic.

A what! I was just going to tie it on the end and add a swivel; however, looked them up on google, I am guessing the bung is something that goes down the pole and stops the elastic coming out, the bush goes in the end and the connector joins the line and elastic. When I get the top section I will wander down the tackle shop with it, he has a discard bin full of stuff he wants to get rid of and I am sure I have seen those in there sometime, sometimes he even gives me something for free, takes pity I think but, he did give me a nice spring balance and tape measure combined last time for f all, so you never know. Anyway, thanks for all your help, sometime next year you will see the fruits of your labourium, whether it will be a big roach or chub or some rod tubes and a landing net handle, we will see, depends if the valium works...anon

 

[mikench]

Learning mandarin is simpler.

 

[no-one in particular]

Learning mandarin is simpler.

I wonder what Izaak would have made of it all, he probably would have taken up golf.

 

[nottskev]

Now all you need is a bung, bush and connector. And for that you need thde diameters of the pole and elastic.

Everything needs to fit, it's true. But in reality there's no need to get too hung up on tiny measurements. I've been elasticating poles for decades have dozens of topkits but I've never measured a thing and you can be pragmatic about it and do it all by eye.

First, look at the tip section of the topkit you plan to elasticate and decide if and how much you need to cut it back relative to the size and strength of the elastic you plan to use. The thicker the elastic, the more you cut back.

You can get the bush you judge likely to be right for your elastic and cut the tip to fit the bush. Or, cut the tip, go to your ts and ask for a bush to fit THIS, or take the whole thing to your ts and say " Can you cut and bush this to suit an elastic of around x?" The fit between elastic, tip and bush is not critical - you just need a fit that allows it to flow freely.

If you're doing it yourself, weigh the tip and bush up by eye and cut the tip down a bit at a time and test it each time until you get a nice fit. You'll find the bush will often "screw" rather than push on. Don't lop a big piece off in one go - you might find your tip is now too big for the bush ooer madam. One tip if you're cutting carbon tube: don't use a hacksaw. The teeth are very likely to snag and pull a split in the carbon. Slowly grind your way around with the edge of a file or something similar. One of those special little saws with tiny serrations is ideal if you have one, The carbon is surprisingly soft. You can tidy the cut end with a bit of fine wet and dry.

The bungs at the other end come in basically two sizes, according to how wide your topkit base is , are sectioned for easy cutting with a Stanley knife, and you fit them by cutting and testing until they fit where you want them - a couple of inches above where your female joint reaches, You'll need an extractor - a hooked bit of stiff wire - to reach in and pull them out.

There are lots of step-by-step instructions online. Mandarin? As a bit of angling diy, it's a small job. I've watched your mole trap video's Clive, and figuring those out is way trickier. It's one of those things that just looks baffling til you've done it once and see how it all works. And trickier if you have no ts around and you're trying to get bits online unable to inspect their physical sizes.


I may be misreading what you meant, Mark, but don't be tempted to tie a length of elastic to the end of the pole. When they first camemout in the 70's we used to stick a little aluminium crook in the pole end, hang a foot of braided elastic on that and attach the rig to the elastic. The outcome of having your rig dancing about on the exposed elastic was just what you'd imagine. Hopeless. The elastic need to run inside the tip and only come out with a fish on the end.

 

[mikench]

對我來說還是太複雜了

edit. The above is mandarin according to Google translate, for “ it’s still too complicated for me” . It’s not spam or from some hacker from China.

 

[@Clive]

Everything needs to fit, it's true. But in reality there's no need to get too hung up on tiny measurements. I've been elasticating poles for decades have dozens of topkits but I've never measured a thing and you can be pragmatic about it and do it all by eye.

First, look at the tip section of the topkit you plan to elasticate and decide if and how much you need to cut it back relative to the size and strength of the elastic you plan to use. The thicker the elastic, the more you cut back.

View attachment 25469

You can get the bush you judge likely to be right for your elastic and cut the tip to fit the bush. Or, cut the tip, go to your ts and ask for a bush to fit THIS, or take the whole thing to your ts and say " Can you cut and bush this to suit an elastic of around x?" The fit between elastic, tip and bush is not critical - you just need a fit that allows it to flow freely.

If you're doing it yourself, weigh the tip and bush up by eye and cut the tip down a bit at a time and test it each time until you get a nice fit. You'll find the bush will often "screw" rather than push on. Don't lop a big piece off in one go - you might find your tip is now too big for the bush ooer madam. One tip if you're cutting carbon tube: don't use a hacksaw. The teeth are very likely to snag and pull a split in the carbon. Slowly grind your way around with the edge of a file or something similar. One of those special little saws with tiny serrations is ideal if you have one, The carbon is surprisingly soft. You can tidy the cut end with a bit of fine wet and dry.

The bungs at the other end come in basically two sizes, according to how wide your topkit base is , are sectioned for easy cutting with a Stanley knife, and you fit them by cutting and testing until they fit where you want them - a couple of inches above where your female joint reaches, You'll need an extractor - a hooked bit of stiff wire - to reach in and pull them out.

View attachment 25473

There are lots of step-by-step instructions online. Mandarin? As a bit of angling diy, it's a small job. I've watched your mole trap video's Clive, and figuring those out is way trickier. It's one of those things that just looks baffling til you've done it once and see how it all works. And trickier if you have no ts around and you're trying to get bits online unable to inspect their physical sizes.


I may be misreading what you meant, Mark, but don't be tempted to tie a length of elastic to the end of the pole. When they first camemout in the 70's we used to stick a little aluminium crook in the pole end, hang a foot of braided elastic on that and attach the rig to the elastic. The outcome of having your rig dancing about on the exposed elastic was just what you'd imagine. Hopeless. The elastic need to run inside the tip and only come out with a fish on the end.

Its OK for you Kev having absorbed the changes over a lifetime. As a newcomer its too much for me to cope with when weighed against the possible benefits and breakages. And I ain't sitting on any alloy platform for anybody. It will remind me of step ladders and decorating. And then when you add up the cost and weight, etc of all that ancilliary stuff to go with it. No wonder pole anglers look like the fair coming to town when they travel to their pegs.

I have a rigged 6 metre fibreglass pole that does for tiddler snatching for dead baits. I'll leave it at that.

 

[nottskev]

Its OK for you Kev having absorbed the changes over a lifetime. As a newcomer its too much for me to cope with when weighed against the possible benefits and breakages. And I ain't sitting on any alloy platform for anybody. It will remind me of step ladders and decorating. And then when you add up the cost and weight, etc of all that ancilliary stuff to go with it. No wonder pole anglers look like the fair coming to town when they travel to their pegs.

I have a rigged 6 metre fibreglass pole that does for tiddler snatching for dead baits. I'll leave it at that.

I get all that, Clive. But I just sit on a box, same as for any other method. The kitchen sink overkill is not imo intrinsic to pole fishing. The anglers ferrying a ton of gear on a motorised trolley to build an aluminium home-from-home in their swim do the same when they're fishing the feeder, the pellet waggler etc etc. (Match anglers would see it as being needed to compete when everyone else is armed to the teeth, equipped for everything, able to set up efficiently on any bank etc etc ) It's an overall mentality, and I don't espouse it, much as I enjoy fishing with poles. You're right - there is a bit of a start-up bump to get over - learning the ropes, getting a few bits and pieces - but after that it's as cheap and simple as you choose to make it. I've often been told by anglers ( I don't mean in this conversation) with rods, reels, all the gear and gizmo's and a big spread of tackle on the bank around them that pole fishing is too complicated for their taste! It comes down, if you choose, to a long carbon tube with a short length of line and a small float on the end.