Barbel Fishing – Attacking the Swim

[Titus]

The thing which concerns me more than anything about this article is the description of the rig. This type of tether rig was very prevalent 25 years ago and practically every feeder fishing article you read would show a nice diagram of it. However, it was recognised at least ten years ago that while it was a perfectly good rig for bream fishing on soft bottomed snag free lakes it was not a safe rig for harder fighting fish on hard bottomed, snaggy, running water venues, and they don't come much more snaggy or rocky than the Wye.
A safe rig which achieves the same bolt effect can be achieved by running a couple of float stops up the mainline followed by a snap link to carry the feeder, a short length of rig tube to act as a boom and a quick clip swivel to attach the hooklink, In the event of a break in the mainline and the feeder snagging instead of committing the fish to a slow death tethered to the snagged feeder the float stops will slide off and the fish will be left trailing a hooklength and a length of mainline.

 

[Simon K]

Quite right, Titus.

There's no place or excuse for such rigs now in any fishing for any species.

 

[chav professor]

So, a contender for March's article of the month competition then?

 

[dezza]

There are two aspects of this article that put it in the "horror comic" class. The shot of those barbel crammed into a keepnet and the use of the "loop rig".

For a period I thought I had time lapsed back to 1995 when I saw with my own eyes several barbel belly up floating down the Severn near Bewdley after a match.

Sorry but the practices highlighted in this article are not on.

 

[dave roberts]

WOW you guys really get personal! LOL

When forums work they can be a great think tank and everyone learns but when they fall into personal insults it's just pointless.

I wasn't going to post again as it seemed fruitless but I will try one more time to engage people in a thought process and discussion instead of an argument.

Firstly non of the fish in this article lost a scale or were damaged. Fact. The fish are not crammed in to a landing net. They are lay across a landing net head, lay on top of 4 metres of soft mesh keepnet, lay on top of grass. The front of the net is rased to stop the fish slipping out and rolling down the bank.

The catch shot may not be ideal and I think it may be removed. I can't say it's my favourite image but I was comfortable with it and may be my confidence handling multiple fish doesn't transfer to still pictures. I've seen a lot worse and not just by Match anglers.

Despite speaking honestly about the 'Them & Us' attitude it is in it's very pomp in this thread. It's so sad, childish and damaging to angling as a whole.

Ok Here's a thought re Keepnets.....

When you land your barbel and place it on your unhooking mat, unhook it, weigh it, photograph it then gently take it to the waters edge, get some water running through it's gills and watch it swim off, what does it do next. How do you know it's ok? At least in a keepnet I can see that they are recovering properly?

I think people forget that the time a fish is at most danger is when it's out of the water and the longer it's out the more danger it's in.

Now Before some of you blood pressure hits dangerous levels I don't believe that keeping large fish in keepnets is ideal in fact a couple of years back during a match on the Warwickshire Avon I phoned the organiser to ask if my 11lb 6oz barbel could be weighed before the end of the match because I was worried for it's welfare despite it showing no signs of distress. It's just about common sense.

I would add that I certainly don't agree with keeping fish in keepnets longer than is necessary (i.e Match duration) and I see it all the time down here with dawn till dusk anglers.

Now about the 'Death Rig'....

I obviously didn't write a very good article as some of you are so wide of the mark it's unbelievable.

The way the rig is tied with a series of knots and a sliding feeder means the feeder is running along the inside of a doubled piece of line. I normally use 8lb mono on medium conditions so around the feeder I've basically got 16lb of diameter. This gives extra abrasion resistance but the weakest part of the rig is the single piece of line inside the top loop that the feeder runs along. If the feeder becomes lodged the first part of the rig to break is the loop. I've landed fish a few times minus a feeder. Are we assuming that it's ok to leave hooks in fishes mouths?

The very nature of the river wye means feeders are usually loaded with extra lead. This causes a lot of abrasion on the line around the feeder. On a simple running rig the line will wear and weaken twice as quick as my rig. In flood conditions I am maybe casting 60 to 70 times in 5 hours. That is a lot of wear and tear.

The series of loops below the feeder keeps the hook link away from the heaviest abrasion areas as well as fluttering the hooklength around by the extra resistance of the doubled up line.

I would happily test my rig against any other for safety. I make my own feeders cage feeders so they're cheap enough to lose. A hooklength though would mean a lost fish with unwated scrap metal in it's mouth.

One thing I don't mention in the peice is a little tip which many will know but..... when a feeder becomes lodged try opening the bail arm and letting out lots of line (about 20 yards should suffice) once the flow has taken the extra line dowstream below the feeder re engage the bail arm and strike sharply in to the bow of line. Usually the change of angle will dislodge the feeder.

I appreciate the work the Barbel society do but I will not be preached to by it's members. Again it's not fair to tar everyone with the same brush but it does sometimes seem like Barbel are all that matters and that by being a member they can talk down to others. That's not aimed at anyone on here just a few encounters I've had.

I don't take criticism well (Who does?) but always listen to what people have to say. What upsets me is when people jump on band wagons and engage in stereotypical Sensationalism. It just spoils good discussion.

Best Regards

Dave Roberts

 

[dangermouse]

Allow me to be the first to welcome you to the forum Dave

It seems you`ve caused a bit of a fuss with your article but hopefully you won`t take the comments too personally.

 

[Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC)]

Dave

The loop rig is a potential teather rig - end of.

If your main line breaks above the feeder ( and don't tell me it can't) then the fish is left dragging a heavy feeder around. Your main line could break due to abrasion on snags. This is very obvious and clearly you choose to over look this probability.

 

[bennygesserit]

yes have I misunderstood ? surely a safe clip would lose the weight even if line were still attached whereas the rig described in the article relies on the line breaking at the right point.

 

[dave roberts]

Because it never has happenned It's a possibility not a probability.

Every Rig is a potential tether rig. If your running rig snags it is more likely that you will leave a hook in a fishes mouth but that seems ok?

Thats life. Weighing up the pro's and cons and making the choice you feel is right.

 

[904_cannon]

Welcome to Barbel Wars No ??? Dave R

So pleased I stick to chub fishing, simple fishing for simple anglers

We used to read of anglers wading through flooded fields to fish the Gt Ouse for its barbel.(other rivers were available)
Anglers fishing 30lb braid!
Assuming everything was 'super safe', nothing left to snag etc etc, even then there is/was a chance of the fish becoming tethered.
Fishing in those conditions which angler would venture into the river to free the fish? More likely they would pull for a break. Not a likely scenario but a possibility.(above method not recommended for anglers of a smaller stature)

 

[Steve Pope]

I see the Barbel Society has been mentioned in this interesting discussion!

The short film produced by Hugh Miles really shows our recommendations regarding handling procedure, there is a link on another thread.

If nothing else the article being discussed here highlights the different perspectives.

 

[chav professor]

Obviously, Keep-nets are a feature of angling and an integral part of the match scene. perhaps posters having witnessed either first hand or on the 'grapevine' the worst keep-net practice and condemn by association.

I use various rigs for my feeder fishing, including the loop rig for roach, bream etc. I use a running rig if necessary for chub/barbel.... perhaps there are double standards in this view.

Unless you are John Bailey, and barely lift a barbel out of the water to simple remove the hook, perhaps a quick shot of the fish in the net, the examination of the trophy shot is comparable to the use of the keep-net if compared to the worst practice observed.....

I don't think this guy would have written an article if there was obvious poor practice or damage to his fish.

 

[dave roberts]

I should point out that this is not the only rig I use when Feeder fishing. I've tried to explain why it outscores other rigs in the right conditions but in doing so made it sound that it's the only rig I use which isn't the case.

My pellet rig for the Warwickshire Avon incorporates a small blockend feeder and safety clip because I'm usually fishing for one bite in slow flowing water. On the River Lugg I only use a running rig because it's all close range fishing and under arm drops where i'm looking for bite indication as opposed to drop backs. This would be the case on any peg where I was fishing inside 45 degrees.

As I've said I'm fully confident in the rigs I use and their safety/effectiveness. Any rig that is badly tied becomes dangerous but I'm affraid that one rig doesn't fit all on big rivers.

 

[Simon K]

Because it never has happenned It's a possibility not a probability.

Every Rig is a potential tether rig. If your running rig snags it is more likely that you will leave a hook in a fishes mouth but that seems ok?

Thats life. Weighing up the pro's and cons and making the choice you feel is right.

Dave, do you know the quite different consequences of leaving "just" a hook in a fishes mouth and leaving a hook tied to a trailing heavy feeder/lead in a fishes mouth?

A running rig is not a potential tether rig, if it breaks anywhere, all the terminal tackle slides off. Same with safety clip, or Titus' example of float stops.

Your "loop" rig is completely unnecessary and dangerous regardless of how many times you cast, or how often you use it.

Whatever is "possible", can and does happen. It is incumbent upon you, as an angler, to minimise the risks to your quarry.

 

[dezza]

Your "loop" rig is completely unnecessary and dangerous regardless of how many times you cast, or how often you use it.

Absolutely true. There are far better rigs now than the loop rig which is a dinosaur in my opinion.

Perhaps the best way forward would be the following:

"No barbel to be weighed-in in matches, No barbel in keepnets"

That's bound to create some comment.

 

[Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC)]

I'd like to add - contrary to belief, using float stops does not make the rig safe. It still takes a relatively large amount of force to slide a float stop up the line against friction (which could be a few feet).

Try set up a sample rig with a feeder on it and place it inthe carpet. Pull on the free end where the fish would be. What moves the most the feeder along the ground or the rubber stop along the line? Beef it up and put a very heavy feeder on and try again.

For a fish to slide the rubber stop up the line then a number of things need to happen.

Either

1. The feeder needs to be snagged AND the fish needs to pull hard enough and for long enough to pull the line through the stop.

OR

2. The feeder needs to be heavy enough to not be pulled by the fish as it pulls the line through the stop.

 

[Simon K]

I'd like to add - contrary to belief, using float stops does not make the rig safe. It still takes a relatively large amount of force to slide a float stop up the line against friction (which could be a few feet).

Try set up a sample rig with a feeder on it and place it inthe carpet. Pull on the free end where the fish would be. What moves the most the feeder along the ground or the rubber stop along the line? Beef it up and put a very heavy feeder on and try again.

For a fish to slide the rubber stop up the line then a number of things need to happen.

Either

1. The feeder needs to be snagged AND the fish needs to pull hard enough and for long enough to pull the line through the stop.

OR

2. The feeder needs to be heavy enough to not be pulled by the fish as it pulls the line through the stop.

That's not really the point? I'm not a big fan of using float stops (though many good safety-conscious anglers are), but it's got good escape potential unlike a fully fixed rig. A useful caveat might be to use float stops a size (or two?) bigger than the line they're rated for. Better still to use a purpose-designed safety clip. You can still hang the feeder off a loop attached to this if you like.

Your example 1. is the scenario this is all related to anyway. It only becomes a potential death trap once the feeder is snagged and can't pull away from it, much as it needs a certain amount of force to pull out the swivel from a safety clip using a semi-fixed bolt-rig. That's the whole point of a bolt-rig?

 

[Titus]

The theory of the loop rig was that the fish could confidently take the bait and move away an inch or two before feeling the weight of the feeder (tbh I'm not convinced it ever happened like that anyway and almost certainly not on running water) the float stop idea was supposed to mimic this effect while still allowing an escape in the event of a mainline break.
The reason match lads like it is it's easy and cheap to tie with no expensive, fiddly, time consuming components.
A far better way of achieving the same effect is to fish a simple running rig with a balanced bobbin between the first and second rings to allow movement and utilising the rod top as the bolt effect.
The loop rig was extensively used 20 odd years ago on the Severn and Trent and I personally landed hundreds of fish on it before I saw the light after finding the remains of a tethered fish in the margins. These days it is widely recognised by thinking anglers as a potential tether rig and I'm surprised an angling coach is not only advocating its use but is defending it's use even after it's shortcomings have been explained.

 

[dave roberts]

A far better way of achieving the same effect is to fish a simple running rig with a balanced bobbin between the first and second rings to allow movement and utilising the rod top as the bolt ef QUOTE]

Further proof that you a) haven't read the article and b) haven't got a clue what you're on about.

Bobbin between the first and second ring?? How does this work when casting 5 ounces of lead across a flooded river, keeping the rod as high as possible to keep line out of the water whilst the tip arches over under the strain giving me maybe 2 minutes max to get a bite before having to wind in because of the debris building up on the line.

Do not dare to lecture me when you have shown yourself to have such little understanding of fishing big powerful, rivers!

The article talks about using the right gear for the job and having confidence in your equipment. The rig requires a certain degrees of understanding knot strength, strangulation etc. If you're not confident in your ability to tie knots then this rig definately not for you.

Next you'll be telling me that I should be using 2 rods for my river fishing which seems very common place with anglers visiting the Wye!

 

[bennygesserit]

A far better way of achieving the same effect is to fish a simple running rig with a balanced bobbin between the first and second rings to allow movement and utilising the rod top as the bolt ef QUOTE]

Further proof that you a) haven't read the article and b) haven't got a clue what you're on about.

Bobbin between the first and second ring?? How does this work when casting 5 ounces of lead across a flooded river, keeping the rod as high as possible to keep line out of the water whilst the tip arches over under the strain giving me maybe 2 minutes max to get a bite before having to wind in because of the debris building up on the line.

Do not dare to lecture me when you have shown yourself to have such little understanding of fishing big powerful, rivers!

The article talks about using the right gear for the job and having confidence in your equipment. The rig requires a certain degrees of understanding knot strength, strangulation etc. If you're not confident in your ability to tie knots then this rig definately not for you.

Next you'll be telling me that I should be using 2 rods for my river fishing which seems very common place with anglers visiting the Wye!

Dave welcome to forum life mate :thumbs: and well done for facing your detractors, but in the who said he said stuff that normally goes on , one can peel back the layers of truth and get to the essentials of the debate , is the rig you propose safe ?