Barbel Fishing – Attacking the Swim

[Simon K]

Now about the 'Death Rig'....

I obviously didn't write a very good article as some of you are so wide of the mark it's unbelievable.

The way the rig is tied with a series of knots and a sliding feeder means the feeder is running along the inside of a doubled piece of line. I normally use 8lb mono on medium conditions so around the feeder I've basically got 16lb of diameter. This gives extra abrasion resistance but the weakest part of the rig is the single piece of line inside the top loop that the feeder runs along. If the feeder becomes lodged the first part of the rig to break is the loop. I've landed fish a few times minus a feeder. Are we assuming that it's ok to leave hooks in fishes mouths?




Dave Roberts

Dave's saying that, in effect, the feeder is looped onto a "rotten bottom" of 8lb line.

What he doesn't say is what happens when the 8lb mainline above the feeder loop breaks.

Other than declaring it to only be "possible".

Not good enough in my opinion.

Especially on a powerful, rocky-bedded river like the Wye.

 

[Judas Priest]

Do not dare to lecture me when you have shown yourself to have such little understanding of fishing big powerful, rivers!

QUOTE]

You really haven't a clue have you.

a question for you:-

Have you fished the Lower Severn with an EXTRA 15-18ft of floodwater coming down it ?

NOW THAT'S A BIG RIVER

I'll hazard a guess that i've been fishing the Lower Severn (as has Titus) in all its states for longer than you've held a rod on a river, add in the Thames and Lower Trent and it rather knocks your little Wye and a persons understanding of big powerful rivers into a cocked hat.

 

[dave roberts]

Do not dare to lecture me when you have shown yourself to have such little understanding of fishing big powerful, rivers!

QUOTE]

You really haven't a clue have you.

a question for you:-

Have you fished the Lower Severn with an EXTRA 15-18ft of floodwater coming down it ?

NOW THAT'S A BIG RIVER

I'll hazard a guess that i've been fishing the Lower Severn (as has Titus) in all its states for longer than you've held a rod on a river, add in the Thames and Lower Trent and it rather knocks your little Wye and a persons understanding of big powerful rivers into a cocked hat.

Of course I have. You don't think I'd be so committed in my views if my experience were based solely on one river do you? In fact my Trent Division 1 National winners medal is glinting at me above the fireplace as I write.

The above response was simply because the talk of bobbins between eyes was so far removed from the article or type of feeder fishing (Notice how I generalised it by exchanging Barbel for Feeder!) that this discussion is about. A typical example of someone getting all high and mighty because everyone else is. Bandwagonism!

 

[Judas Priest]

Let's cut to the chase Dave

As long as you're happy with the piece and having it up on here for "discussion", and as long as your sponsors are happy with the piece and for it to be here then who else matters ?

Difference between a "match" angler and a "Specialist/General" angler

To a "match" angler a fish is a means to an end (payday)

To a "specialist/general" angler a fish is the end.

 

[dave roberts]

Dave's saying that, in effect, the feeder is looped onto a "rotten bottom" of 8lb line.

What he doesn't say is what happens when the 8lb mainline above the feeder loop breaks.

Other than declaring it to only be "possible".

Not good enough in my opinion.

Especially on a powerful, rocky-bedded river like the Wye.

It is 'possible' for a badly tied running rig to tangle. In fact the use of rig/float stops in conjunction with large feeders is an awful rig for tangling when a substantial cast is required even with a boom. Anything is possible but I have confidence in my set ups.

I know I won't win this argument but if the rig I favour in powerful conditions let me (and the fish) down in the way you describe I wouldn't use it.

I can't remember losing a feeder last season let alone a complete rig.

Incidentally I appreciate that you have put 'In your opinion'. I respect that whole heartedly.

 

[bennygesserit]

Is it as safe as a more conventional and modern safe rig though ?

 

[dave roberts]

Let's cut to the chase Dave

As long as you're happy with the piece and having it up on here for "discussion", and as long as your sponsors are happy with the piece and for it to be here then who else matters ?

Difference between a "match" angler and a "Specialist/General" angler

To a "match" angler a fish is a means to an end (payday)

To a "specialist/general" angler a fish is the end.

Judas (Love that name btw...... I assume you weren't christened that?!)

I'm perfectly happy with the piece as are my sponsors. It does matter to me what people think but I think if you were going to differentiate between match anglers and specimen anglers based on this thread alone it would be that Match anglers don't have some sort of weird, childish hang up about other anglers.

Match anglers are just specimen anglers that openly admit their competetive side. The male ego requires competition and that may well take the form of displaying a piture on a website of a PB/Record barbel. It's only there for the satisfaction of the captor.

While you might want to catagorise me it might pay you to remember that on Friday morning I spent the morning wading through the river with a spinning rod. (2 brown trout, 1 salmon kelt and a greedy 5lb Chub) on saturday I spent 5 hours catching bream and an odd carp on pellets at a commercial fshery (Weighed 46lb Spread over 2 keepnets and won nothing) and today I finished runner up in the Glocester Canal Champs catching 12 bream using bloodworm. I count my blessings that I do not catagorise myself.

 

[bennygesserit]

Is it as safe as a more conventional and modern safe rig though ?

Jeez am I invisible ?

---------- Post added at 23:09 ---------- Previous post was at 23:08 ----------


Helooooo !

---------- Post added at 23:18 ---------- Previous post was at 23:09 ----------

Jeez am I invisible ?

---------- Post added at 23:09 ---------- Previous post was at 23:08 ----------



Helooooo !

Jeez what do you need to join in a conversation on fm ? A f....ing magic watch and a degree in f....ing barbel watching ?

Or do you have to have been to south africa about a gazillion times ?

No you have to be in some f.....ing inner magic circle that just constantly makes jokes about womens lady parts , like you guys have ever seen anything remotely female

I tell you what you can all go and f... Yourselves you clicky clicky *******s


Thumbs up ! ( your mums bum )

 

[dave roberts]

Jeez am I invisible ?

---------- Post added at 23:09 ---------- Previous post was at 23:08 ----------



Helooooo !

Sorry Bennygesseerit.

I think that what you can take from this balanced informed debate is that in the right hands the rig is perfectly safe but not as safe as a safe rig which as it's name suggests has a care of duty to be safe!

It's funny because people have a dig re. sponsors and brand placement but I have absolutely nothing to sell or gain from this discussion. People seem interested in what I do so I write about it. No point in making stuff up.

I suppose the only way you can tell for sure is to try it when conditions require and make an informed decision as I have.

 

[bennygesserit]

Sorry forgot to add GFY ourselves

 

[richiekelly]

No the rig is not safe and neither are some " safety clips " as they require a lot of force to release the lead, even good ones can be dangerous when in the wrong hands and the rubber tail is jammed on to tightly. the only rig where you can be sure that the feeder is not trapped on the line is a running rig, i.e. nothing fixed on the line.

 

[Simon K]

No the rig is not safe and neither are some " safety clips " as they require a lot of force to release the lead, even good ones can be dangerous when in the wrong hands and the rubber tail is jammed on to tightly. the only rig where you can be sure that the feeder is not trapped on the line is a running rig, i.e. nothing fixed on the line.

What has the tail rubber got to do with it?

If the mainline breaks the only force necessary to release the lead is that applied to the swivel to pull out from the clip, followed by the trailing mainline.

The tail rubber is to release the lead if it snags and the fish is still fighting the angler. As soon as the main line breaks, the tail rubber function is obsolete.

Dos anyone actually fish bolt-rigs on this forum?

---------- Post added at 07:50 ---------- Previous post was at 07:45 ----------

It is 'possible' for a badly tied running rig to tangle. In fact the use of rig/float stops in conjunction with large feeders is an awful rig for tangling when a substantial cast is required even with a boom. Anything is possible but I have confidence in my set ups.

I know I won't win this argument but if the rig I favour in powerful conditions let me (and the fish) down in the way you describe I wouldn't use it.

I can't remember losing a feeder last season let alone a complete rig.

Incidentally I appreciate that you have put 'In your opinion'. I respect that whole heartedly.

A lot of things are "possible", but modern day angling is all about minimising risk to fish. I don't feel your answer justifies your position since all rigs now are scrutinised from the point of view of "what happens when the mainline breaks".

In my view, no self-respecting specimen or carp angler would condone this rig.

 

[sam vimes]

Does anyone actually fish on this forum?

Tidied for you. I do sometimes wonder.

 

[barbelboi]

Sometimes Simon. I prefer to fabricate my own - something like this.
Jerry

 

[Simon K]

Tidied for you. I do sometimes wonder.

 

[Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC)]

There you go chaps. I'll give you this one for free.

A 'safer' loop rig that I devised some years ago. This picture has been in my FM gallery for all to see for years.

The loop is created using a sliding rig rig, which acts as the stop for the feeder. If there is a main line break then the line can pull through the rig ring and release the feeder.

The rig ring can be replaced by a loop to provide and even simpler arrangement.

 

[the wise one]

There you go chaps. I'll give you this one for free.

A 'safer' loop rig that I devised some years ago. This picture has been in my FM gallery for all to see for years.

The loop is created using a sliding rig rig, which acts as the stop for the feeder. If there is a main line break then the line can pull through the rig ring and release the feeder.

The rig ring can be replaced by a loop to provide and even simpler arrangement.

Now that I like!!

I'll give that rig a go on my next bream outing.

Many thanks.


Benny, it was probably your accent they couldn't understand -ow bin ya?

 

[Titus]

A far better way of achieving the same effect is to fish a simple running rig with a balanced bobbin between the first and second rings to allow movement and utilising the rod top as the bolt ef QUOTE]

Further proof that you a) haven't read the article and b) haven't got a clue what you're on about.

Bobbin between the first and second ring?? How does this work when casting 5 ounces of lead across a flooded river, keeping the rod as high as possible to keep line out of the water whilst the tip arches over under the strain giving me maybe 2 minutes max to get a bite before having to wind in because of the debris building up on the line.

Do not dare to lecture me when you have shown yourself to have such little understanding of fishing big powerful, rivers!

The article talks about using the right gear for the job and having confidence in your equipment. The rig requires a certain degrees of understanding knot strength, strangulation etc. If you're not confident in your ability to tie knots then this rig definately not for you.

Next you'll be telling me that I should be using 2 rods for my river fishing which seems very common place with anglers visiting the Wye!

The first sentence of my post says,

"The theory of the loop rig was that the fish could confidently take the bait and move away an inch or two before feeling the weight of the feeder (tbh I'm not convinced it ever happened like that anyway and almost certainly not on running water)"

Your reply says far more about your lack of understanding than it does about mine.

 

[Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC)]

Now that I like!!

I'll give that rig a go on my next bream outing.

Many thanks.


Benny, it was probably your accent they couldn't understand -ow bin ya?

The rig ring/loop can also be a 'loosely' tied sliding stop knot. Note it has to be relatively loose to enable a fish to pull the line through it to prevent tethering.

If anyone has any doubts then try it on your carpet at home first.

 

[dave roberts]

No it doesn't.

Your comment showed total misunderstanding and the first line of your post explains someones theory behind a rig but not mine.

Don't use someone elses theory to try jump all over me.

Poor form old boy!