Give up those secrets!

[Paul Morley]

Ay Caramba! That's some info. I am a born cynic but these days my thinking on a river which gets fished to hell (Ribble) are changing a bit. Only having limited time means like many I want to do whatever I can to get a pick up. No way would I fork out for much commercial juice, source however seems excellent. I've made up some paste with thai curry paste as the first 'liquid', an amount of garlic etc. this will wrap around some baits and create a trail I hope. In so doing I think I could offer something these battered fish haven't seen, in conjunction with other 'tweaks'. That's as far as I'll go, but if it makes me feel positive then it must be worth it (cost minimal). My main fishing buddy is a chemistry teacher, he's very keen on flavours. I have another who is a Professor of Chemistry (!) and he uses Spam...... each would feel positive about their choice.

 

[Graham Elliott 1]

Paul. I think you have summed up the status quo in Barbel angling pretty well.

And doesn't it make it fun.

As I said, I'm happy that adding monster crab to my bait in flooded coloured waters help me catch more.

And adding cajun spice to my chopped ham and pork bits.


But then again, it might just be a confidence thing.

And I have to admit, I do love sniffing the "best ever boilie" that my mates concoct to try and see what it contains......

Great contributions, I have learnt a lot.

Graham

 

[Sean Meeghan]

It's been an interesting thread. I think part of the problem (and the fun) is that fish are by nature "grazers" in that their natural food is thinly distributed and they have to search it out bit by bit. They will take advantage of a glut of food such as mayfly hatches and it is this behaviour that we try to take advantage of when we fish for them by feeding quantities of free offerings and presenting out bait amongst them.

With barbel I've now started to use less free offerings and tried to make my hook bait easy to find. This has worked well, but I must admit to having a hard time over the past month.

 

[sam vimes]

I don't recall using bait dips and additives for barbel. I've dabbled with them when carp fishing but don't have a great deal of faith in them. No doubt that others have very different experiences. If the going gets tough, on my usual barbel haunts, I'm as likely to use small amounts of free offerings or a stinky bait such as garlic Spam. If that fails, I've found that good old fashioned sweetcorn can be a fine alternative bait that will get you bites when pellet, boilie and meat are failing to get a response.

In a similar way to Sean describes, I've cut down on freebies for both carp and barbel with increased success. Ten to fifteen pellets (same size as the hookbait) or eight boilies in a PVA mesh bag is quite adequate. This has partly been down to necessity of increasingly shallow pockets, but mainly down to my observations of the way fish are feeding and responding to bigger beds of bait. To my mind, too many freebies often mean little more than less chance of the hookbait being picked up. However, I would concede that the relatively low stock density of barbel on my local river and carp in the water I'm fishing has an awful lot to do with this. If I venture to the Trent, or a much more densely stocked carp water, the amount of loose feed I'll use increases.

 

[Paul Morley]

That's it - try to make the bait easy to find - any means to that end. On a less fished water I'd probably do it differently. I also look forward to the slightly contradictory method of maggot feeder in colder months, but I think a garlic flavour there would help (it'd help me at least!).

 

[geoffmaynard]

I also look forward to the slightly contradictory method of maggot feeder in colder months

What's contradictory about a maggot feeder? Excellent method and bait, and more, effective in winter for barbel.

 

[nicepix]

To answer Laguna's point about fish being put off by artificial ingredients; I read an article about marine scientists studying pollack. They found by experimentation that the pollack they were studying preferred clams to anything else put before them. They would even seek out and eat the clams rather than other food when the clams had been tainted with diesel or creosote. It did not put them off eating the clams.

A lot of North Sea anglers used WD40 on their squid and mussel baits with good results. South African carp anglers used all sorts of noxious tasting stuff on their baits - a sort of sweet and sour mixture. What I believe is that some fish may be attracted by curiosity to the noxious stuff and find the edible stuff with it.

 

[Sean Meeghan]

Whilst this may well be true for sea fish which are generally only caught once. I suspect that Chris' point about denatured and artificial additives is very true for fish that have been caught before. Make a bait obvious and then catching fish on it usually results in it blowing pretty quickly. Think luncheon meat and sweetcorn. Dying these baits has been proved to extend their life, but eventually fish wise up to the smell of the bait.

Artificial additives are generally pretty obvious and easily detected by the fish. This is true of humans too and it has been demonstrated that our brains can detect when artificial sweeteners are used in food which causes us to tend to eat more of these foods without realising it.

 

[alan whittington]

I've yet to find a river where barbel don't get caught on meat,even at the height of summer when fish are under pressure some are caught on it,i mean come on if fish blow baits,barbel should never eat another pellet,boilie or maggot,or should they?

 

[sam vimes]

I'm quite content that baits do "blow". However, what blow means to one angler might not be the same as it means to another. To me a blown bait does not mean that you'll never catch on it again, just that fish get progressively more wary. Potentially to the point that they become very difficult to catch on that bait. A period of the fish not being subjected to that bait may see it come round again in effectiveness. It's also a pointer as to why the angler that does something a bit different to the majority can have significant success.

I suspect that a highly scented/flavoured or unnaturally coloured bait is much more likely to "blow" quickly. I feel that the effectiveness of washed out boilies on pressured waters is reasonable evidence of such. Over the past few years, I've also witnessed a cyclical acceptance/rejection of certain baits. Fishing a fairly lightly pressured stillwater has been an education in this respect, though I make no claim to have it "sussed". It would be foolish to claim such as it changes subtley from year to year, sometimes for no greater reason than the vaguaries of the weather.

Around this time of year (Oct/Nov) the amount of folks fishing dwindles, along with the amount of bait going in. Come the following March, the carp seem to have all but forgotten what a boilie is. When the angling activity increases with the improved weather and temperatures, the odd fish falls to boilie, but not too many. I've had more success early in the spring fishing maggot in the margin after spotting signs of feeding fish. As the year rolls on, things get progressively more difficult. Margin feeding fish can still be found, but they become increasingly wary of beds of maggot. At worst, the introduction of a few maggots, in the middle of a coloured feeding patch, can see the area clear, yet it stays cloudy with obvious fish activity on either side. By May/June (ish) there has been a steady increase in boilie going in and the fish increasingly respond well to them. Before you know it, but hopefully after you've had some success, it's back to Oct/Nov and the cycle starts over.

 

[Sean Meeghan]

Here's a challenge then Alan. Next season use luncheon meat exclusively for your barbel fishing. Don't dye it, use it straight from the tin. I'd lay a lot of money that your results would take a bit of a tumble.

One thing I would say is that I'm convinced the first thing that starts to spook fish is the visual aspect of the bait and its presentation. I might be missing the fish that spook on the smell of a bait, but when I'm observing barbel feeding over my bait it looks like it's the sight of the line or the hook or the appearance of the bait that causes the problem. Educated fish are very good at eating everything in the swim except for the bit with the hook in it.

 

[Paul Morley]

We read though Sean that barbel's eyes, mouth and errr barbules are situated such that sight may not be the first thing working for them, unlike with species where their eyes and mouths are otherwise arranged, eg chub? Isn't the reason you use some soft braid as the last part of your hooklink to avoid a negative 'feel' rather than a visual clue?

 

[Graham Elliott 1]

Added

Yes seen some fish positively ignore the hook bait amongst freebies which would seem to indicate the "action"
(in running ) or "weight" (in static ) of the bait is pretty important.........

 

[Paul Boote]

Yes, very much so, Graham. "Dead", anchored, static baits. I'll say no more.

 

[tiinker]

Here's a challenge then Alan. Next season use luncheon meat exclusively for your barbel fishing. Don't dye it, use it straight from the tin. I'd lay a lot of money that your results would take a bit of a tumble.

One thing I would say is that I'm convinced the first thing that starts to spook fish is the visual aspect of the bait and its presentation. I might be missing the fish that spook on the smell of a bait, but when I'm observing barbel feeding over my bait it looks like it's the sight of the line or the hook or the appearance of the bait that causes the problem. Educated fish are very good at eating everything in the swim except for the bit with the hook in it.

The trick is to get the hook bait to behave exactly the same as the free offerings this goes for all fish .

 

[Graham Elliott 1]

Tinker.
said better than I tried to!

 

[tiinker]

Tinker.
said better than I tried to!

Long hook lengths and slack lines is part of the answer the other is critically balanced bait . The way a bait behaves is all important in all angling.

 

[bennygesserit]

Here's a challenge then Alan. Next season use luncheon meat exclusively for your barbel fishing. Don't dye it, use it straight from the tin. I'd lay a lot of money that your results would take a bit of a tumble.

One thing I would say is that I'm convinced the first thing that starts to spook fish is the visual aspect of the bait and its presentation. I might be missing the fish that spook on the smell of a bait, but when I'm observing barbel feeding over my bait it looks like it's the sight of the line or the hook or the appearance of the bait that causes the problem. Educated fish are very good at eating everything in the swim except for the bit with the hook in it.

wasn't there a clip in catching the impossible showing exactly that sort of behaviour ?

 

[aebitim]

I would tactfully suggest that post 74 and feeding in the right place might make a difference

 

[alan whittington]

But on that basis the current trend of boilies and pellets,round or barrel shaped normally would spook fish as the fish are being caught far more on them,i wonder if we fed more meat the fish would become less wary,loads of small cubes perhaps,as for my catch rate,i started fishing on my chosen venue in september,i havnt had a barbel yet(it is a hard venue,due to otters),but there have been a few fish out,some of which fell to meat in low water conditions,some bouncing it,some static.