Is it me or Has River Fishing Generally Declined?

[no-one in particular]

"The bottom line for me is that the numbers of river anglers appears to be dropping steadily. What's worse is the numbers of really good river anglers, river match specialist or not, is tailing off even more quickly."

Yeah but don't you secretly love it, all that river to yourself, look both ways and not a angler in sight. Your swim never ruined because its been hammered the day before, all the fish virgins, pristine conditioned, having not yet learned to be wary, no holes in there gobs. free to roam at your leisure, pure peace and quiet. And its all free. Commercials, where would we be without them !

 

[sam vimes]

Yeah but don't you secretly love it, all that river to yourself, look both ways and not a angler in sight. Your swim never ruined because its been hammered the day before, all the fish virgins, pristine conditioned, having not yet learned to be wary, no holes in there gobs. free to roam at your leisure, pure peace and quiet. And its all free. Commercials, where would we be without them !

I'm not complaining about the situation, just giving part of the reason as to why river fishing may superficially appear to be generally declining.

 

[barbelboi]

Personally, I've spent most of this season on the rivers and had a very satisfying time...

 

[binka]

I think many relevant points have already been mentioned, certainly in my own experience I've seen cyclic changes to the predominant species, swims that were good swims become virtually barren and vice versa over the years along with a decline in the numbers I see fishing.

It might be a bit of a more versatile game now on some rivers and I think the rewards are very much there for those that can adapt to the changes where those are the case, i'll certainly continue to spend the vast majority of my time enjoying running water.

 

[The Runner]

Yes - Agree completely.

An earlier poster complained about the lack of fish in the Thames. In my experience this year, and from other I have read, it seems that, certainly for silverfish, the lower river has not been so good for a long time. They are not always in the same swims, but they are certainly there in very good numbers and quality.

I've had days this year where they have literally been crawling up the rod, and then same swim, same conditions, couple of weeks apart, much more difficult - move and you seem to find them somewhere else.

Spot on I think.
As a few have said, things are cyclical re fish populations, and these cycles often seem longer than anglers memories.
If I could be allowed one generalisation I would say that over the last few years the bigger rivers have got better and the smaller rivers harder, locally at any rate. The Thames in some areas is as good as if not better than I can remember it (as long as you catch it with a bit of movement and preferably colour) while its tributaries have gone the other way with many areas having a handful of big fish and little else. There are signs of a comeback on the bits of the Cherwell and Colne that I know- more roach and perch in the Colne than there has been for years on my local stretch although , as they used to 20 years and more ago, at the first sign of a few cold nights they all shoal up in the same handful of swims .(which was my point about angler's memories- had a club meeting last week where one or two of our older members were baffled at why they couldn't get a bite on pegs x or y; well, you never could at this time of year unless it was a chub)
Agree also with the point of many anglers now not having the old river skills in their armoury as well

 

[andreagrispi]

"The bottom line for me is that the numbers of river anglers appears to be dropping steadily. What's worse is the numbers of really good river anglers, river match specialist or not, is tailing off even more quickly."

Yeah but don't you secretly love it, all that river to yourself, look both ways and not a angler in sight. Your swim never ruined because its been hammered the day before, all the fish virgins, pristine conditioned, having not yet learned to be wary, no holes in there gobs. free to roam at your leisure, pure peace and quiet. And its all free. Commercials, where would we be without them !

I went a whole winter on a stretch of the Yorkshire Derwent and never saw another angler, a stretch of the Wharfe I fish never sees a soul, ditto with a stretch of the Nidd. Even a very prolific stretch of the Swale - I've fished it for 2 years and probably seen 6 other anglers in all that time. River anglers have never experienced such solitude in probably 200 years.

 

[wes79]

I'm a rubbish fisherman to be honest so have no idea how good or bad my local rivers fish, its a bit of a crash course in modern angling meets catch up, but I'm hooked!!!
Having been finding out just how beautiful some of my local rivers are and what I've witnessed in wildlife on the bank has taught me to just keep making up those lame excuses to the better half, buying me enough time for just a few more extra casts in the week is proving to be priceless (its not dishonest, its a hobby that cannot see completion.....).

I'm running out of excuses though

 

[Judas Priest]

I fish, and I'll name it as its a big river, the lower severn and can honestly say it seems to be getting better for all species year on year.
Good year classes of barbel up to good doubles, lots of silvers including some stunning roach and perch, days fishing a maggot feeder knocking hybrids out one after another, predator fishing as good if not better than anywhere else, and miles and miles of it with no other anglers in sight.

Not sure wether river fishing per sei is in decline but the days of the big matches has long gone as its not as easy as parking behind your swim, water at a constant depth/width, no snags, easy comfortable flat seating, overstocked waters with winning weights into three figures etc. in my opinion there's still the same amount of serious river anglers out there it's just the match and nice weather guys who are missing these days.

 

[no-one in particular]

I went a whole winter on a stretch of the Yorkshire Derwent and never saw another angler, a stretch of the Wharfe I fish never sees a soul, ditto with a stretch of the Nidd. Even a very prolific stretch of the Swale - I've fished it for 2 years and probably seen 6 other anglers in all that time. River anglers have never experienced such solitude in probably 200 years.

Same for me Shaun, empty rivers, even on a nice sunny Sunday afternoon. I would say I do miss a few anglers though, its nice to stop and have a chat, see what they caught, what baits they are using etc.
I think 90% of anglers head for commercials these days or club lakes. I am amazed though how much river stretches owned by clubs get ignored. I think one of the problems, at least in my area is that these stretches are often controlled by clubs miles away. I think they scout for waters any where they can find them just to attract new members but, then the members are not prepared to travel the distances involved so, they just get left. And locals are not prepared to pay the fees of some distant club just to fish a bit of river on their doorsteps.

---------- Post added at 08:21 ---------- Previous post was at 08:19 ----------

I'm not complaining about the situation, just giving part of the reason as to why river fishing may superficially appear to be generally declining.

Not complaining, is it Christmas. (smile)

 

[maverick 7]

I don't want people to think I am saying hardly any fish is being caught at all.....I am simply asking if river fishing is GENERALLY as good as it was say, 10 or 15 years ago....personally, I don't think it is anywhere near as good and if you agree, I would like to know your opinions on why you think so.

I realise of course there are plenty of fish still being caught but are these only located in "pockets" of the river.....with lots of other stretches of the same river being practically barren of life. I saw Sam's match results and very impressive they were too....but I would be surprised if there wasn't plenty of other matches on the Swale around that time that produced nothing like those results.

I have been twice on the Swale earlier this year at Cundall Farm and no Sam....it wasn't packed out ....I reckon there was about 5, maybe 6 on the bank on both occasions including me and my pal and we was all stretched fairly well apart and not a single fish was caught in either session...by anybody.

In fact I was that desperate to catch a fish that after 6 or 7 hours of no fish I resorted to fishing the oxbow (I think they call them) for a couple of hours...and not a bite in there either...abysmal fishing. I do a lot of swim building when I am in the river...it has just not worked for me this year.

But that was just one example ....there are plenty more from this year's travels.....could the constant search for the best waters by all the clubs have anything to do with it....leaving nothing for the non club member to fish except all the rubbish stretches.....just a thought.

Maverick

 

[binka]

I realise of course there are plenty of fish still being caught but are these only located in "pockets" of the river.....with lots of other stretches of the same river being practically barren of life.

Going back to the mid-late 90's when the Trent was well and truly in the doldrums the EA used a survey boat to conduct a report on fish stocks and it showed that the fish were still very much there albeit in massive concentrations in certain areas and only a sparse distribution in others... Areas with cover such as moored boats being amongst the hot spots which I think was in turn linked to cleaner (clearer?) water and increased predation as the reason.

An article appeared back at the time in the Angling Times who accompanied the EA team on the survey.

Thankfully it's certainly not what I find these days with a good balance throughout the areas I fish (and casts doubt on the then cleaner water/predation theory as the river is now generally cleaner and clearer than ever and the fishing much improved) but demonstrates that wide variations in fish populations can and do occur even if we are only speculating at best as to the reasons.

I think we sometimes look too hard in our desire to explain things when it could all simply boil down to a naturally occurring imbalance and the resulting cyclic changes.

And of course one river, as I talk about, won't represent a generalisation but just my experience...

 

[sam vimes]

So you are just talking about a specific few days on certain stretches? I don't believe that's anywhere near enough to base any kind of conclusion on. That's akin to watching Sunderland twice, seeing them draw both times and concluding that they never lose (the optimist) or never win (the pessimist). Rivers are constantly changing, those particular stretches may well not be what they once were. There are good stretches either end of the Cundall length that are producing, but neither see the amount of pressure, or the number of complete numpties, that Cundall sees. I recall fishing an opening day at Cundall around five or more years ago. The place was packed, yet not one single barbel was caught. For many years I'd only bother with it if there was a good lump of extra water. It kept the hordes at bay and the fish were always likely to respond well.

I've had just six sessions on the lower river and hooked barbel on all but one of them. I've witnessed, or been told about by anglers I trust, several catches of multiple barbel, chub and a smattering of big roach. I've fished the upper river far more and have battered grayling and trout out with monotonous regularity. With a spot of luck, and a bit of extra effort, I've had corking days catching good dace in better numbers than anyone remembers for years. I'm not alone in that either. However, you have to find them, they are rarely in the same place for more than a few days. There are definitely bad days to be had, especially in the height of summer, but most of them can be easily explained by the stupidly low water we suffered for the bulk of the warmer months. Cundall is a stretch that I've long avoided in low water conditions, it's far too deep and slow. You might be right that the Swale is, overall, not quite as good as it once was. I'd have little doubt in believing that some stretches are definitely not what they once were. However, overall, it's nowhere near as bad as your ultra pessimistic view might suggest.

As for your complaint about clubs. Barring the Black Bull stretch (which hasn't been day ticket for a good fifteen years), how many day ticket stretches on the Swale have ceased to be available in the last few years? There aren't many that I can think of. Most of the day ticket bits of yesteryear are still day ticket stretches. The fact that some of them may not be what they were is not the fault of the clubs elsewhere on the river.

 

[aebitim]

Part of the fishing thing for me is finding and catching whats there, an early season trip to the Wye with barbel in mind very soon changed to a perch bonanza because they were there at the time, itsfishingnotcatching that keeps me interested, there are allways commies for the faint of heart.

 

[maverick 7]

So you are just talking about a specific few days on certain stretches? I don't believe that's anywhere near enough to base any kind of conclusion on. That's akin to watching Sunderland twice, seeing them draw both times and concluding that they never lose (the optimist) or never win (the pessimist). Rivers are constantly changing, those particular stretches may well not be what they once were. There are good stretches either end of the Cundall length that are producing, but neither see the amount of pressure, or the number of complete numpties, that Cundall sees. I recall fishing an opening day at Cundall around five or more years ago. The place was packed, yet not one single barbel was caught. For many years I'd only bother with it if there was a good lump of extra water. It kept the hordes at bay and the fish were always likely to respond well.

I've had just six sessions on the lower river and hooked barbel on all but one of them. I've witnessed, or been told about by anglers I trust, several catches of multiple barbel, chub and a smattering of big roach. I've fished the upper river far more and have battered grayling and trout out with monotonous regularity. With a spot of luck, and a bit of extra effort, I've had corking days catching good dace in better numbers than anyone remembers for years. I'm not alone in that either. However, you have to find them, they are rarely in the same place for more than a few days. There are definitely bad days to be had, especially in the height of summer, but most of them can be easily explained by the stupidly low water we suffered for the bulk of the warmer months. Cundall is a stretch that I've long avoided in low water conditions, it's far too deep and slow. You might be right that the Swale is, overall, not quite as good as it once was. I'd have little doubt in believing that some stretches are definitely not what they once were. However, overall, it's nowhere near as bad as your ultra pessimistic view might suggest.

As for your complaint about clubs. Barring the Black Bull stretch (which hasn't been day ticket for a good fifteen years), how many day ticket stretches on the Swale have ceased to be available in the last few years? There aren't many that I can think of. Most of the day ticket bits of yesteryear are still day ticket stretches. The fact that some of them may not be what they were is not the fault of the clubs elsewhere on the river.

Sam....I have fished rivers for the last 50 years so I do believe I know a little bit about how they work. I am not quite sure what you are trying to say with your "specific few days on certain stretches and Sunderland FC" statement however, what I am sure about is that this response is just one more of your usual abrasive, spiky responses to almost everything I post...but hey ...I don't mind so long as you are enjoying yourself, that's all that matters eh?

Anyway, back to the real world.....of course I am not basing my curiosity on just "a few specific days on certain stretches"...and for the life of me I cannot understand what made you believe I was...even though that could possibly enter the equation somewhere along the line. Those "few Specific days" you talk about used to produce fish EVERY time they was taken in years gone by....particularly on the Swale. What I am saying here is.... they are not doing that now....not for me anyway and this thread is all about who else may be having similar problems, why can't you seem to get your head around that?

There are also many other "few specific days" on lots of other rivers I fish too...and the results have been similar this year.

I am not one for fishing the same stretches on the same rivers time after time ....although I am completely aware of the possible rewards of doing just that, like getting to know swims like the back of your hand etc etc but I prefer to explore pastures new... hence the reason I have a huge portfolio of the rivers I fish. That should also explain the reason for the "clubs" suggestion I put forward....BTW it was simply a SUGGESTION not a complaint...read it again Sam.

Also yes, it would be about 15 years when the Black Bull stretch went to the syndicate (what a waste of a great stretch of river).....I fished that place for the previous 35 years...on and off at least. I also think you might find there is quite a lot of club controlled stretches on the Swale and some WILL allow you to fish day ticket but only on certain stretches...which I believe are stretches not considered to be very productive or favoured by the members of the clubs concerned.

So Sam.....I don't mind you telling me where I may be going wrong ( I would welcome it)....I don't claim to be the worlds best angler so I'm sure you or somebody else can do that... but please don't analyse everything I say with a microscope simply so you can tear it apart with some nonsense responses....perceive this thread as everyone else seems to have perceived it.

Maverick

 

[sam vimes]

Maverick,
suit yourself, you think I'm spiky and abrasive towards you, I feel exactly the same way, with a generous helping of condescension thrown in, about every response you make to me. I usually disagree with most of what you've got to say and, no doubt, you feel the same for what I've got to say. You think I pick up on certain points you make and miss the crux, I feel that you do that in spades. I can live with the fact that we are never going to see eye to eye on pretty much anything.

The subtle difference between us is that I live a couple of miles from the Swale and am demonstrably fishing it on a very regular basis. I certainly wouldn't be doing that if it were quite the write off that you are making out. I've no desire to bang my head against a brick wall. I make no claims to be the greatest angler, but even a numpty like me is doing reasonably well. No doubt that's partly because I'm a better angler than I used to be. Plenty of practice tends to help too. That could be masking some of the degredation of the river a little. However, I can't catch fish that aren't there.

I'm quite convinced that you are way too pessimistic about the Swale (and you aren't the only one), drawing conclusions from far too few sessions that may well be in the wrong places at the wrong times. Just because somewhere was the right place twenty years ago does not mean it still is the right place. Feel free to join the hordes that are abandoning the rivers, it's no skin off my nose if you do. Quite the opposite to be truthful, from an entirely selfish point of view, the more people that write them off the better.

 

[The bad one]

Here we go again it's all the clubs fault for taking away the day ticket lengths on the rivers. Wake up man ask yourself why? It's really simple, the bloody owners were fed up with the Sh*te they were getting by running them as DT. Not a myth, fact from many owners I've spoken to over the years about why they leased them to a club. Much the same reason why more and more clubs don't do DTs on the lengths they now control.
Here's another simple one for you, if you want to fish a club's length become a member of them. It ties you down as you like to try many lengths on many rivers ? Then do some homework and find out which club has the biggest portfolio of river(s) lengths in the area you live or want to fish, and join it. Or if it's not instant access, put your name down and forget about until they offer you an invite to join.
If you not prepared to do that, then you'll have to fish what you believe are the dross waters, most likely forever.
Well run club's look after their members interests, not those who can't be bothered to make commitments.

 

[maverick 7]

Maverick,
suit yourself, you think I'm spiky and abrasive towards you, I feel exactly the same way, with a generous helping of condescension thrown in, about every response you make to me. I usually disagree with most of what you've got to say and, no doubt, you feel the same for what I've got to say. You think I pick up on certain points you make and miss the crux, I feel that you do that in spades. I can live with the fact that we are never going to see eye to eye on pretty much anything.

The subtle difference between us is that I live a couple of miles from the Swale and am demonstrably fishing it on a very regular basis. I certainly wouldn't be doing that if it were quite the write off that you are making out. I've no desire to bang my head against a brick wall. I make no claims to be the greatest angler, but even a numpty like me is doing reasonably well. No doubt that's partly because I'm a better angler than I used to be. Plenty of practice tends to help too. That could be masking some of the degredation of the river a little. However, I can't catch fish that aren't there.

I'm quite convinced that you are way too pessimistic about the Swale (and you aren't the only one), drawing conclusions from far too few sessions that may well be in the wrong places at the wrong times. Just because somewhere was the right place twenty years ago does not mean it still is the right place. Feel free to join the hordes that are abandoning the rivers, it's no skin off my nose if you do. Quite the opposite to be truthful, from an entirely selfish point of view, the more people that write them off the better.

Sam....the Swale is not the issue here ...in fact that river is the least of my problems at the moment.....you're right, I don't fish it often enough these days to make the rash judgement of "writing it off" as for some strange reason, you seem to think I have...

I brought the Swale up in the thread simply because the River Swale produced nothing on the 2 occasions I have fished it in the last 2 years at Cundall and I thought that was worth a mention along with the bigger mentions of the near fruitless visits to the likes of the Don, Wye, Trent, Dove and Derwent and I have fished those rivers far more frequently than I have the Swale......Maybe there is a connection...and that connection being that most rivers are fishing badly of late...I don't know Sam, that is why I am asking the question.

I don't think your view of "the more people that write them off the better"...is selfish but it is my opinion that if that happened it could be disastrous....I think without anglers on the bank, river fishing would suffer enormously...Wasn't river fishing far better 20 years ago when many of our rivers always had lots and lots of anglers on it's banks....far, far more than it has these days?.....was that just a coincidence?

Look Sam....I really don't want to fall out with you or anybody else on here....I find your views interesting and informative and I think you have an awful lot to offer any forum....I loved your thread on spate rivers and I have been meaning to leave a post on there when I get round to it. When I found out you lived near the Swale and fished it very often....I had hoped that at some point you would direct me in the right direction of some good fishing on the Swale that perhaps would replace my "beloved" Black Bull stretch but it looks like our differences of opinions have put paid to that hope.

Never mind...there is nothing wrong with sticking to your values and beliefs and speaking your mind even if you know they will not be received favourably

... and us Yorkshiremen seem to excel in that area.

Speak to you later.....

Maverick

---------- Post added at 09:24 ---------- Previous post was at 08:47 ----------

Here we go again it's all the clubs fault for taking away the day ticket lengths on the rivers. Wake up man ask yourself why? It's really simple, the bloody owners were fed up with the Sh*te they were getting by running them as DT. Not a myth, fact from many owners I've spoken to over the years about why they leased them to a club. Much the same reason why more and more clubs don't do DTs on the lengths they now control.
Here's another simple one for you, if you want to fish a club's length become a member of them. It ties you down as you like to try many lengths on many rivers ? Then do some homework and find out which club has the biggest portfolio of river(s) lengths in the area you live or want to fish, and join it. Or if it's not instant access, put your name down and forget about until they offer you an invite to join.
If you not prepared to do that, then you'll have to fish what you believe are the dross waters, most likely forever.
Well run club's look after their members interests, not those who can't be bothered to make commitments.

I think you ought to read the thread again mate......at no time during this thread have I blamed the clubs for what is possibly happening on the rivers or for bagging the best stretches of the rivers....I have simply stated what I know to be FACT. Before I enter any further into this reply...I would think that the rent for a stretch of water put in some landowners hand in a lump sum by some angling club president... and the fact that the landowner doesn't have to collect it on a daily basis from DT anglers is also an extremely strong reason for the landowners decision to lease as opposed to DT...don't you think?....well, it is according the landowners I have spoken to over the years. (they are probably a different breed to the ones you have spoken to eh?)

For your information...I am a member of 2 clubs and it may rise to a possible 3 next year. You need to understand that I am trying to create a debate here on a subject that is apparently real no matter who is to blame if anything or anybody at all and that is what I was hoping to discuss......the REASON......if indeed there is one. You seem to think that I believe the reason is the clubs......which really is laughable ....I think it runs much deeper than that...the guys in my clubs are not having much success either. All I am trying to do here is search for a reason for a general lack of success for a good few anglers.... if there is one.

Just because I was defending the day ticket fishermen you automatically thought I was one....You seem to be of the opinion that all DT anglers are yobs and litter louts which although I agree that those type of anglers do exist....I would argue that there are far more that are not....they simply cannot afford the upfront fees that a club often demands. Despite being a member of 2 clubs I do not think it is right for the clubs to cherry pick all the best stretches seemingly of every river in the country, leaving the dregs to the country's DT anglers despite having many of their own club stretches of rivers totally barren of anglers on many occasions....They deserve some decent day ticket river fishing and not have to travel the country's length and breadth to get it either.

Like I said ....you should read the whole thread before making ill informed posts like yours......

Maverick

 

[andreagrispi]

I do think that one of the key factors as to why rivers are more of a challenge is due to a lack of angler presence on the stretches - fish do tend to localise and those locations are not fixed, as many have stated, a big flood and sometimes the fish re-locate. Less anglers means less opportunity for the fishes locations to be identified.

 

[greenie62]

I do think that one of the key factors as to why rivers are more of a challenge is due to a lack of angler presence on the stretches - fish do tend to localise and those locations are not fixed, as many have stated, a big flood and sometimes the fish re-locate. Less anglers means less opportunity for the fishes locations to be identified.

A very good point Shaun,
It relates to basic Statistical Analysis - If you don't do the 'sampling' you can't determine characteristics of the population!

 

[sam vimes]

Sam....the Swale is not the issue here ...in fact that river is the least of my problems at the moment.....you're right, I don't fish it often enough these days to make the rash judgement of "writing it off" as for some strange reason, you seem to think I have...

I brought the Swale up in the thread simply because the River Swale produced nothing on the 2 occasions I have fished it in the last 2 years at Cundall and I thought that was worth a mention along with the bigger mentions of the near fruitless visits to the likes of the Don, Wye, Trent, Dove and Derwent and I have fished those rivers far more frequently than I have the Swale......Maybe there is a connection...and that connection being that most rivers are fishing badly of late...I don't know Sam, that is why I am asking the question.

You've asked the question and a couple of regulars on rivers you mentioned have suggested that you may be over-egging the pudding. I'm not particularly surprised when anyone suggests our river systems are not quite what they were. However, when the likes of the Trent and Wye are included, I'm a touch bemused. Both account for a fair dollop of angling tourism that didn't happen on the same scale twenty years ago. There has to be good reason for that. I don't know a great deal about the Don, Dove and Derwent, but I'm aware of river records tumbling in the last few years on each of them. What little I do hear is generally positive, especially with regards to the Don. I've always been under the impression that it was a glorified industrial sewer not too many years ago. I find the suggestion that it's actually worse than it was twenty years ago to be quite amazing.

I don't think your view of "the more people that write them off the better"...is selfish but it is my opinion that if that happened it could be disastrous....I think without anglers on the bank, river fishing would suffer enormously...Wasn't river fishing far better 20 years ago when many of our rivers always had lots and lots of anglers on it's banks....far, far more than it has these days?.....was that just a coincidence?

I'm not convinced that more people on the bank improves the fishing. Rather that improved fishing might put more people on the bank. My experience has been that the less folks there are, the better my river fishing gets.

Look Sam....I really don't want to fall out with you or anybody else on here....I find your views interesting and informative and I think you have an awful lot to offer any forum....I loved your thread on spate rivers and I have been meaning to leave a post on there when I get round to it. When I found out you lived near the Swale and fished it very often....I had hoped that at some point you would direct me in the right direction of some good fishing on the Swale that perhaps would replace my "beloved" Black Bull stretch but it looks like our differences of opinions have put paid to that hope.

There's really no falling out going on, I just fundamentally disagree with your grim assessment, and hope that I've given the reasons why.

I can't, and won't, tell you, or anyone else, about certain stretches I fish on a public forum. However, read the "how did you get on" thread, check my signature and put two and two together, though there might be the odd random red herring to keep people on their toes. Beyond precise spots, I make no secret of the club water I'm fishing. I'm quite happy to promote the club.

Hell, I've mostly got nowt better to do, if someone is prepared to buy a day ticket and wants to catch a few grayling (with plenty of trout, occasional flurries of dace, the odd chub and a fairly vague chance of a barbel) I'll do my best to put them onto some fish in person. That goes for anyone, local, not so local or out and out summer tourists. Provided they don't expect chalk stream results, or cast iron guarantees, I'm game if it helps the club's income.

Never mind...there is nothing wrong with sticking to your values and beliefs and speaking your mind even if you know they will not be received favourably

... and us Yorkshiremen seem to excel in that area.

Just a small point of order. Despite my location, I'm not actually a Yorkshireman.