Angling trust fish legal put subs up

Chris Hammond ( RSPB ACA PAC}

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Mike Heylin was quoted as suggesting that we should all pay much more for our fishing in the Angling Times last week. IMO It illustrates perfectly how out of touch he and the Angling Trust are with anglers in general in this country. I'm afraid the Trust doesn't represent the common angler, (For want of a better term.) they represent specialist anglers, they are two completely different animals And I believe as such they are destined only to receive a membership take-up commensurate with their demographic.
 

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Mike Heylin was quoted as suggesting that we should all pay much more for our fishing in the Angling Times last week. IMO It illustrates perfectly how out of touch he and the Angling Trust are with anglers in general in this country. I'm afraid the Trust doesn't represent the common angler, (For want of a better term.) they represent specialist anglers, they are two completely different animals And I believe as such they are destined only to receive a membership take-up commensurate with their demographic.

Is £25 a lot to ask? What's that, 50p a week? Less than a bar of chocolate! Or compared with the cost of a round of drinks in a city centre pub, then no it's not a lot of money! Yet ask that of a bloke who has just lost his job or someone on a low wage and the answer is yes it is a lot of money! So there is no right answer. It all depends on your own personal circumstances and outlook and what we perceive as being good value for money.

Thing is Chris, compared with many other sports, angling is 'cheap' or it certainly can be and that was part of it's attraction when I was a kid and still is if am honest. Yet at the same time I cannot complain when the likes of the RSPB buy former fisheries for millions and then ban fishing!
 

stu_the_blank

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I'm afraid the Trust doesn't represent the common angler, (For want of a better term.) they represent specialist anglers, they are two completely different animals

Chris, most of this thread has berated the ATr for failing to represent Specialist Angling, just goes to show that you can't please all of the people all of the time! Or any of them!

Beg to differ, don't think that they are two completely different animals. We are all 'common anglers' and we all pass through different phases of obsession, commitment etc some to a more intense level than others but pretty much the same draws us all back to the water.

If we want to take on the vested interests that threaten our sport, we need to raise a fighting fund, whether it's through individual membership, clubs, the tackle trade or whatever, somewhere down the line we either pay up or lose.

Of course if you're happy that the RSPB can defend the carnage wrought by cormorants, happy that water companies can keep pollution secret, happy that water extraction increases unopposed etc. Don't pay.

The other side in all these cases is awash with money, recourses and power.
 
A

alan whittington

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I just want to ask,would anyone on FM expect the RSPB not to fight the cormorants corner,i hope not,for that would show extreme naivity,the ATr doesnt even ask me as a member what i believe is right for angling and by not contacting its membership base it is not gathering a consensus to base its claim to being the voice of angling,im going to try to leave this thread now,as Fred Bonney and Ray have it weighed up,'its just going round in circles',i believe is the anology.:w
 

Chris Hammond ( RSPB ACA PAC}

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I've no problem with people disagreeing with my point of view but don't accuse me of being shy with my money, it's got nothing to do with it. If the ACA was incepted again as the stand alone organisation it was I'd be a member again in a flash and I put plenty back into the sport in other ways.
 

jef bertels

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im going to try to leave this thread now,as Fred Bonney and Ray have it weighed up,'its just going round in circles',i believe is the anology.:w

Alan I'll give you 2 days and you'll be back. I think we've all said that to ourselves and it just drags you back in. Someone says something you don't agree with and you think "Right, I'm not having that!" and before you know it you're tapping away furiously :D

See you in 2 days....or less! ;)
 

jimmy crackedcorn

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Alan, just before you go, bare in mind the rspb sanction the shooting of flocks of ruddy duck (I believe an American import) to protect the very similar European White headed duck.

I think I've got the breeds the right way round but you get my drift !
 
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Is £25 a lot to ask? What's that, 50p a week? Less than a bar of chocolate! Or compared with the cost of a round of drinks in a city centre pub, then no it's not a lot of money! Yet ask that of a bloke who has just lost his job or someone on a low wage and the answer is yes it is a lot of money! So there is no right answer. It all depends on your own personal circumstances and outlook and what we perceive as being good value for money.

Thing is Chris, compared with many other sports, angling is 'cheap' or it certainly can be and that was part of it's attraction when I was a kid and still is if am honest. Yet at the same time I cannot complain when the likes of the RSPB buy former fisheries for millions and then ban fishing!

Nail on the head there Eddie! The truth is that the 'man on the street' angler will never bother joining the AT cos either he doesn't give a sh*t or more likely can't afford it!

The AT should look at giving clubs with successful recruitment full membership in return for a modest ticket levy... so both clubs and club members are automatically involved...
 

MarkTheSpark

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I just want to ask,would anyone on FM expect the RSPB not to fight the cormorants corner,i hope not,for that would show extreme naivity,the ATr doesnt even ask me as a member what i believe is right for angling and by not contacting its membership base it is not gathering a consensus to base its claim to being the voice of angling,im going to try to leave this thread now,as Fred Bonney and Ray have it weighed up,'its just going round in circles',i believe is the anology.:w

What do you mean the ATr doesn't even ask your opinion? It does. And in any case, you could send them an email any day you like.

I thought Mark Lloyd's radio time was well spent - the Beeb did give RSPB the last word, but ATr's involvement in the politics of this situation goes much, much deeper than that. ATr has managed to get the Minister to review the cull licences, and has another meeting in March.

I've no problem with anyone having a well-reasoned objection to spending £25 and joining, but at least research your subject and get your facts right.
 
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Neil Maidment

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It seems to me time is a key factor. We demand quick if not instant results.

The ATr is still an infant (although to some, quite understandably, is just the latest reincarnation). But it has achieved a lot in a very short period of time. I can certainly see valid criticism from some in the specialist angling world which made real contributions to the ATr formation. The ATr must represent all anglers and at the same time work much harder to attract and maintain membership.

The RSPB is often held up, quite rightly, as a successful membership organistaion with a very strong voice in the political world. But its been around for over 100 years and has evolved in many ways to what we we see today. I would imagine, in the early days, the founders and early movers and shakers encountered all sorts of opposition, opposite views and critics. I wonder if they would have survived in today's world of the web? :)

Their website quotes:

"In its earliest days the Society consisted entirely of women who were moved by the emotional appeal of the plight of young birds left to starve in the nest after their parents had been shot for their plumes. The rules of the Society were simple:

  • That Members shall discourage the wanton destruction of Birds, and interest themselves generally in their protection
  • That Lady-Members shall refrain from wearing the feathers of any bird not killed for purposes of food, the ostrich only excepted."
(poor old Ostrich!)

But the modern RSPB is no longer just about birds. It's strapline today is: "Nature's Voice - your membership will save wildlife" and "We work to keep rivers healthy for wildlife such as kingfishers". (nice emotive picture of a Kingfisher).

It has successfully manouvered its position through changing times whilst maintaining it's "fluffy" appeal to all ages. It doesn't overtly specialise in the myriad of different birdy watchers but caters for them all. But it's taken over 120 years to get to that stage.
 

MarkTheSpark

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Precisely, Neil. It just annoys me that so many anglers just sit on the sidelines sniping. How can they expect ATr to achieve great things if they don't join and give it the funds to do them? And if you don't like what you see, the only way to change the organisation is to join. What's that old adage about paying the piper?

To all those who have been critical of ATr I say this; pay your £25 and give yourself some power. Then you can legitimately take up your problems with Mark Lloyd's team.
 

david i

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Trust me it takes a while!

My association has been going for just over 100 years, we currently have about 30% of the active participants in our market as members.

Agreed some other organisations in our sector between them probably have another 10%

That still means the majority are not members of anything - but will moan like stink if their hobby is attacked or curtailed!

Oh and its not all about price, we have one of the highest cost membership packages in our sector, we are twice the price of most of the rest, but we have proven we can deliver more - simple because we have the resources so to do.

David
 

Bluenose

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....I've no problem with people disagreeing with my point of view but don't accuse me of being shy with my money, it's got nothing to do with it.....

Not sure who accused you of being shy with your money Chris?

You said MH is out of touch because he reckons we should pay more for our fishing. I simply stated that whether cost is too much or too little depends on the individuals circumstances.
 

Windy

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Ah well.

At the risk of being branded a vacillating soft brained double turn coat I am sufficiently persuaded to stick to my original commitment to three years membership and then decide if I want to continue.

The principal considerations which have impressed me to do so are (a) that's what I said I would do and I do try to be a man of me words..... all of them :eek: "gulp" and (b) the fact that the head honcho has finally been prised out of his shell and taken the trouble to post on here to answer some of the criticisms. And made a pretty good fist of it, hasta be said.

May not agree with or accept all of what he says, but the chap has at least demonstrated that he has got the balls to do so. T'was a bad mistake ignoring online forums I think, even tho they are irksomely time consuming if you are faced (as no doubt he is) with replying to fifteen or so all at once. Sympathy due, but abdication of the battle field, not.

Mind you, he probably wouldn't have had to if the ATr had had the sense to deploy a few PR reps / volunteers / assistants capable of monitoring and posting on forums like this.

And I still think the subscription is too much and the increase stupidly wrong headed - I suggest that the ATr Google the headings "law of diminishing returns" and "marginal cost disincentive".

But there it is, that's their choice. Me, I'd cut the sub to a straightforward tenner a head per year and watch five times the present revenues flood in.... let alone the increase in membership numbers and increased political credibility as a result, leading to an increased perception of worth, and additional members joining. An upward spiral loop, what's not to like. Instead of putting the subs up by six times the rate of inflation.
 
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david i

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With all due respect its easy to say half the price and double, quadruple or whatever the membership - it simply does not work , in this industry or any other

Another organisation has recently run a half price offer, spent tens of thousands advertising it, let alone hiring a PR company to help them promote it... and NOT anywhere near doubled their income.

If you cut the ATr sub to £10 to would not see another 60,000 people join over the next few years, as soon as you cut it to £10 some will come out saying even at a tenner its too much!

People will always fund an excuse not to join, and price is typically used as an excuse it’s rarely the real reason.

As I said before, all of us will spend more on beer, fags, magazines, and so on in any 12 month period that the £25 it currently costs to join the ATr and help protect your sport.

David
 

jef bertels

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May not agree with or accept all of what he says, but the chap has at least demonstrated that he has got the balls to do so. T'was a bad mistake ignoring online forums I think, even tho they are irksomely time consuming if you are faced (as no doubt he is) with replying to fifteen or so all at once. Sympathy due, but abdication of the battle field, not.

That goes a long way with me too. Plus, admitting their mistake of retreating away from online discussion and now asking for help to up their web profile.

A lot of us on here are involved in some form with running clubs and we know it's often hard to know what to do for the best and what to prioritise. Must be incredibly hard in the AT as it comes in at them from all directions.
 

richardcrimp

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Final and last words, in the form of an appeal.

Martin Salter ... come back to the UK pleeeeease. May be even to a job with the ATr, I'd pay 3 times as much for that to happen.

Your wish may well come true John! Let's hope so at any rate, as it would be great to see him back in the UK and fighting angling's corner once again.


Richard
 

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Angling Trust now on Twitter and Facebook

The Angling Trust is now welcoming anglers, both members and non-members to join them on twitter.com/anglingtrust and facebook.com/anglingtrust :)
 
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