3 tonns of bait, a tow rope and a spare 3 months

[Andy "the Dog" Nellist]

Rik and Frothey

I know of an example of a 30lb Carp caught towing a 4oz lead on a safety clip.

I know of numerous examples of double figure bream hooking themselves on 4oz + lead rigs incorporating leadcore and being unable to move the lead.

In my rigs the feeder/lead is retained only by a bead secured by a float stop on short piece of powergum. Apply more than 1lb of pressure and the float stop slides off the powergum and releases the lead. The direction in which you pull makes no difference at all.

The lead/feeder is cast out with the aid of a casting hook similar to those used for decades by sea-fisherman when fishing over rough ground from the shore.

Safe as houses and used in conjunction with powergum helicopter rigs that cushion
the hookhold it won't teather a fish and won't damage its mouth.

You won't catch me risking using safety clips or leadcore.

At to 2 1/2lb line on a fixed rig being dangerous i for one have never heard of a fish being tethered by such light line.

 

[Wolfman Woody]

Thank you Andy and as I also said, "I tend not to use them these days."

The loop method is still very effective as far as I am concerned and I am trying to find an alternative even safer way of tying something. Like the sliding knot we sometimes use for barbel fishing.

Take a weaker line than the mainline and tie a 6-turn sliding knot leaving the up-pointing tag quite long. Trim the down pointing tag to ?" and tie the lead to the up-pointing tag. This keeps the rig out of a lot of tangles and a pull (probably of a couple of pounds only) will drag the weight clean off. In fact, so many leads are lost naturally using this method that our Charley uses lorry wheel nuts now.

 

[Big Rik]

I can cast a 4oz lead on 12lb line without a shockleader and without cracking off.



Should I promote that to all and sundry as a safe method?

 

[Bryan Baron 2]

Depends how far you recomend casting it Rik.

 

[Frothey]

"At to 2 1/2lb line on a fixed rig being dangerous i for one have never heard of a fish being tethered by such light line."

well, you would'nt, would you! they're tethered. how would you ever find out that the rig 60yds out in the lake had a fish attached. the only read

i wasnt actually arguing with you andy, the powergum comment was tongue in cheek and got the bite (LOL).

 

[Andy "the Dog" Nellist]

To my mind the debate should be about risk and educating the average anglers to use gear in a way that minimises it. The current PC propoganda damns the use of certain gear when that tackle presents a mere fraction of the risk of other tackle commonly in use.

If people discuss fish welfare then I am very willing to listen but most of what i hear said is delivered in the manner of a fundamentalist preacher and is for the most part utter nonsense.

Fish welfare plays a major part in my fishing and will continue to do so. Its a shame that the rule makers out there don't iunstead foucus their efforts on education. Educate anglers and they will be careful preach to them and they will remain a threat through their ignorance.

 

[Frothey]

there are very few actual dangerous rigs andy, its the application of the rig that causes the problem, or people that dont understand how to tie them, or when to use them. its a bit like the beachcaster rig debate we had a while ago.....you have to quantify how and when to use it.
the 360 rig that was published recently...it isnt enough to publish it and say "only experienced anglers fishing for 25lb+carp should use it" and then say "within an hour of using it i had a 28 and a 30", because that just send the message to a beginner that you just have to use these and suddenly you'll be catching whackers......

 

[Frothey]

i think me, you, gary, rik and the others manage to have an argument when we're actually all in agreement (thats a first for us!)

 

[Andy "the Dog" Nellist]

i'd like to disagree but i can't )

 

[Wolfman Woody]

Well I agree - with Andy first of all, well said.

Also with what's his name .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Oh go on, Frothey. There.

I believe a lot of angling is about education in preference to rules, but I am afraid that the mags these days tend to squirt some methods out as "you too can can catch with this" before the anglers have worked out the risks and downsides for themselves.

 

[jason fisher]

it's amazing the ammount of people on here who end up having arguments with each other while actually saying exactly the same thing.

andy any chance of an article on that rig of yours with the bead and power gum it's got me intrigued.

 

[Frothey]

i'm sure i've seen it on here somewhere i think...

and f%?k off jason you **&*&^*$ old %$*$*^$% with a $%$&^ for a *&()& !!!

 

[jason fisher]

you're in a good mood today then!

 

[Frothey]

grrrrr.....bloody ferrari's!

 

[Wolfman Woody]

Still the best driver EVER, Frothey!!!

 

[Fred Blake]

I know it's an old thread but, having just read Mark's article, I have to say I am so glad someone else has noticed this ridiculous trend and put their thoughts down in a logical manner. I hope every member of FM reads it and is prompted to think a bit harder about their own approach.

I too recall the days when light tackle was all the rage; I had a Saturday job for a while in a tackle shop which catered mostly for match anglers (in those days carp anglers were unusual) and I can recall the owner scorning my use of three pound line and a size 16 hook on a local river, calling it 'animal-stopping stuff'. I even had one of those original Normark Microlights - to which I attached my trusty Mitchell 300, much to my employer's disgust.

Now I don't suggest that all you need to land big fish is three pound line; far from it. I recognised even then that there are far more times when such gear is inadequate than when it is over-heavy. But the current fashion for using rods of nearly 2lb test for barbel, or 4lb for carp, is nuts. To avoid breakages the line strength has to be balanced to the rod; in turn the hook size must be appropriate to the line. Hence the almost universal use of 15, 20, even 25lb lines.

Matters are made worse when someone thinks that, as the carp in their water are not very big, they could scale down a bit and get better sport; they use a 6 or 8lb line on their carp rod and promptly get broken by an average size fish. This makes them think that 8lb line is too light when the problem lies not with the line but the rod.

I read somewhere many years ago that the angler should always start by deciding what fish he proposes to catch; from this he can assess the sort of bait needed and therefore an appropriate hook size. This in turn dictates line strength. Finally, a rod is selected to suit the line, the method of fishing and conditions of water.

Obviously, the size of fish present and the proximity of snags can combine to modify the original selection, but the basic principle still holds.

 

[Fred Blake]

By way of illustration, I'll give an account of a typical evening's fishing on my local lake. There are usually a few anglers there who will be targeting the carp; these chaps usually occupy the swims near the island, regardles of wind direction, temperature or visible signs of fish. I leave them to it and pick a spot where I think there will be a good chance of tench, crucians or carp.

I have a bait which is easily made and seems very effective for all three species (and the bigger roach, whose intrusions I mind not a bit). It is soft, so I like to know as soon as possible if a fish picks it up. I have also found that all species bite very delicately in this water; why that is I do not profess to know, but I do know that a sensitive float rig will outscore freelining, legering and bolt rigs (I know because I have tried all three).

I use four to six pound line depending on the presence of snags, with hooks from size 12 up to size 8. The rod is a 12 foot glass job with a progressive action. As I usually fish the margins I find a centrepin better than a fixed spool reel. Using this outfit I have landed carp to mid-doubles with no problems at all, yet the roach and crucians still put a good bend in the rod.

I usually end up with half a dozen tench, a few crucians and perhaps three carp to ten pounds; on a good evening I might treble this. During this time the carpists around their island will probably have three carp between them, of similar size to mine. I normally know when one of them has a run because I can hear their alarms from the other end of the lake. I have yet to see one of them have to play a fish for more than half a minute; often the fish is wound straight in.

Do they enjoy themselves? I couldn't say. I do know however that I enjoy every fish I catch.

 

[Lewis Duffy]

is it me or are you very fast at typing

 

[Fred Blake]

No, I had to split the posting as it was too long. It has actually taken me nearly two years to type...