Angling Trust Angry at ‘Shambolic’ EA

[bennygesserit]

Are the ATr monitoring this forum? Would it be possible to have a response from 'The Voice of Angling'? Martin Salter was on Fishermans Blues this morning and mentioned this issue so they must have a view on it.

Stu

To be honest its not as though it is difficult to contact Paul , his email address is on his web site and he responds to his email , its easy to say this but if I was in the ATr I would have entered into a dialogue.

Now some of the questions raised by members here completely outstrip my knowledge , maybe , and its just speculation , the ATr were asked for a view , as I am sure they are asked for many views on many subjects , and they gave the answer they were expected to give.

 

[pondy]

Theres some more info about what is actually proposed from a canoeing thread: Guidebook Community Pages • View topic - Abingdon Weir at Risk from Hydro Project ? - The UK Rivers Guidebook. This includes some details re the abstraction licence (1.3 million cubic metres per day). The scheme was apparently advertised in the Wantage Herald and Oxfordshire press and the deadline for this "consultation" passed last October.

Pondy, what do you get out of this?. I read somewhere else on the net that someone involved considered this project as contributing to gods work on earth and helping with the "Big Society". Is this another way of saying that you might stand to make a lot of money?

I wish! We are purely a voluntary group, the scheme we hope will be funded by local shareholders who will all want a dividend, we will be paying out an interest rate on their investment, taking out enough money to maintain the project, ie, insurance, equipment maintenance and repairs, a contingency fund and fees for operating the share scheme, the remainder will be put into a community fund for other projects. Any money I am likely to make will be from any shares I buy in the scheme and that is likely to be limited to a maximum of £20k per shareholder so any financial gains for myself and any of the other directors will be very limited.
It's not intended to be a money making scheme unlike if a commercial outfit installs it.

 

[stu_the_blank]

To be honest its not as though it is difficult to contact Paul , his email address is on his web site and he responds to his email , its easy to say this but if I was in the ATr I would have entered into a dialogue.

Now some of the questions raised by members here completely outstrip my knowledge , maybe , and its just speculation , the ATr were asked for a view , as I am sure they are asked for many views on many subjects , and they gave the answer they were expected to give.

There could be a lot of reasons why the ATr haven't entered into a dialogue with Abington Hydro. Not least of which is that there are a lot of these schemes being proposed at the moment and because hardly any of us have joined and put up any money, they have severely restricted recources. Or they may be concentrating their fire on the EA. We don't know. I hope that we get an update from them.

You say 'if I was in the ATr', I take it you aren't a member. If not, why have you any expectation of them?

Stu

 

[bennygesserit]

There could be a lot of reasons why the ATr haven't entered into a dialogue with Abington Hydro. Not least of which is that there are a lot of these schemes being proposed at the moment and because hardly any of us have joined and put up any money, they have severely restricted recources. Or they may be concentrating their fire on the EA. We don't know. I hope that we get an update from them.

You say 'if I was in the ATr', I take it you aren't a member. If not, why have you any expectation of them?

Stu

I take your point , if we were all in the ATr then that would be a massive voice for angling. The reason I haven't joined is that I don't agree with what I think their views on otters are and I'm a bit tight fisted.

 

[chub_on_the_block]

I wish! We are purely a voluntary group, the scheme we hope will be funded by local shareholders who will all want a dividend, we will be paying out an interest rate on their investment, taking out enough money to maintain the project, ie, insurance, equipment maintenance and repairs, a contingency fund and fees for operating the share scheme, the remainder will be put into a community fund for other projects. Any money I am likely to make will be from any shares I buy in the scheme and that will is likely to be limited to a maximum of £20k per shareholder so any financial gains for myself and any of the other directors will be very limited.
It's not intended to be a money making scheme unlike if a commercial outfit installs it.

Thats reassuring, although i am sure there are less contentious ways of making a difference re global warming or conserving the environment.

Without seeing an environmental assessment it would be difficult to form a firm overall opinion re the merits of your scheme, so I am left to cite primary concerns expressed widely about fish mortalities (which appear unavoidable) and the potential environmental changes in the river both within the existing weirpool or elswehere as a result of changing the flow and turbulence.

As regards the visual impact, there can be little doubt that these things are ugly and represent riverside development at a site where there isnt any at the moment. Why add to this intrusion with a visitor centre?. This would need an access road, maybe catering facilities and so on. A back door to commercialisation of the riverbank?

---------- Post added at 04:46 ---------- Previous post was at 04:38 ----------

I take your point , if we were all in the ATr then that would be a massive voice for angling. The reason I haven't joined is that I don't agree with what I think their views on otters are and I'm a bit tight fisted.

A pity the EA doesnt give an option to join the ATr when you renew your rod licence. But there never is any joined up thinking in this world.

 

[stu_the_blank]

The reason I haven't joined is that I don't agree with what I think their views on otters are and I'm a bit tight fisted.

I don't know what their views on otters are to be honest, it's a very delicate and highly emotive subject. It is also only one of many threats to angling. I don't agree with them on everything and I don't expect to. I just think that if we don't try and put up a united front, we are doomed. I believe that considering the eye watering lack of support they are doing pretty well.

Anyway no pay, no say! As most anglers seem to be tight fisted too, we get what we deserve, ignored.

Stu

---------- Post added at 06:02 ---------- Previous post was at 05:53 ----------

A pity the EA doesnt give an option to join the ATr when you renew your rod licence

That's simple, the EA are the Govt. Why would they want to get involved with an organisation representing anglers any more than they would the RSPB?

To work, the ATr has to be independent. The EA are usually on the side of the enemy. Hydro, Otters, Cormorants, Extraction, Discharge Licences, etc, etc. The fisheries people are very nice but they are a tiny part of a gigantic Govt Department. All the time that we are so disorganised that there is no political price to pay, we will be ignored.

Stu

 

[bennygesserit]

But in this case , it seems ( so far ) that the ATr haven't done anything but generate publicity for themselves , Oh hang on aren't some of their key members anglers who generate their own publicity anyway ?

However that is sort of a whole thread in itself, Pondy do you have any thoughts on whether the screw is fish safe ?

 

[stu_the_blank]

But in this case , it seems ( so far ) that the ATr haven't done anything but generate publicity for themselves , Oh hang on aren't some of their key members anglers who generate their own publicity anyway ?

Benny, I'm sure that if you give it a bit of time you can think of a whole load of excuses not to join. You are in the majority (of about 98% of anglers). We get what we deserve. The facts on these turbines are in the public domain. There's little doubt that they will have a negative effect on angling but unlike the RSPB, the Govt can comfortably get away with ignoring us.

As I said earlier, if you aren't a member why have you any expectation of them?

Stu

 

[bennygesserit]

Benny, I'm sure that if you give it a bit of time you can think of a whole load of excuses not to join. You are in the majority (of about 98% of anglers). We get what we deserve. The facts on these turbines are in the public domain. There's little doubt that they will have a negative effect on angling but unlike the RSPB, the Govt can comfortably get away with ignoring us.

As I said earlier, if you aren't a member why have you any expectation of them?

Stu

Stu I can see your point of view , about a united voice for angling , like the RSPB, and I will certainly consider it now, i can comment on any public body though especially in this case where I saw the article as potentially being a little one sided.

Although I don't know enough about river ecology to be certain of that.

Start another thread on the ATr and I'll be happy to join in that , but I certainly don't want to divert the thread away from the major issue - is the Abingdon Hydro scheme a good or bad thing id you are an angler.

---------- Post added at 17:38 ---------- Previous post was at 16:06 ----------

As I said earlier, licenced to kill 100's of fish day, 10,000's over a year.
Read the ATr position statement on Hydro schemes HERE

I must say that link is very convincing !

 

[tuolumne fisher]

a mahoosive thanks to pondy for joining the forum, pukka m8

a simple question for you fella, how can you as part of the local community, be prepared to change something, before you fully understand what lives there ?

 

[geoffmaynard]

Despite your statement Pondy, it seems to me that if shareholders are involved who will want a dividend, then this IS a commercial operation and it IS about making money - that's why they are investing. Where they put their profits is immaterial. Though I suggest it is even more about gaining political capital than financial. As has been said by others, not every Green policy is good for the environment.
As an angler for the last 40 years, what do you attribute the decline of the Thames to? And do you not think these hydro plants will contribute to be a continuation of that decline.

 

[stu_the_blank]

Stu I can see your point of view , about a united voice for angling , like the RSPB, and I will certainly consider it now, i can comment on any public body though especially in this case where I saw the article as potentially being a little one sided.

Hi Benny, it's not a public body. I get a bit hacked off when people who haven't joined and contribute nothing, for what ever reason, complain why the ATr don't do more. They are very under recourced because the majoritory of anglers who are quite happy to leave it to others then moan about what is or isn't done. If you haven't joined, they don't represent you, it's that simple.

I think that if you look into the matter you'll find that it is the establishment (that includes Pondy's mob) propaganda that is very one sided. But hey, who cares about a few fish, they don't.

Stu

 

[bennygesserit]

Hi Benny, it's not a public body. I get a bit hacked off when people who haven't joined and contribute nothing, for what ever reason, complain why the ATr don't do more. They are very under recourced because the majoritory of anglers who are quite happy to leave it to others then moan about what is or isn't done. If you haven't joined, they don't represent you, it's that simple.

I think that if you look into the matter you'll find that it is the establishment (that includes Pondy's mob) propaganda that is very one sided. But hey, who cares about a few fish, they don't.

Stu

I mean't an organisation in the public eye. I commented on the ATr , as is my right , the same right that the ATr have to comment on Abingdon.

What would be beneficial is to hear Pondy answer anglers specific questions about hydro, Lets take that chance , do you know if Pondy cares about fish ? Have you asked him ? Have you read the ATr's official view of hydro ? I am reading it , its very interesting.

Pondy have you read it ?

---------- Post added at 08:50 ---------- Previous post was at 08:48 ----------

a mahoosive thanks to pondy for joining the forum, pukka m8

a simple question for you fella, how can you as part of the local community, be prepared to change something, before you fully understand what lives there ?

Spot on , I think its great we have a direct line to someone directly involved in such a big angling issue, given the propensity for any government these days to want to be seen to be green it looks like there may be many many more of these projects.

 

[stu_the_blank]

What would be beneficial is to hear Pondy answer anglers specific questions about hydro, Lets take that chance , do you know if Pondy cares about fish ? Have you asked him ? Have you read the ATr's official view of hydro ? I am reading it , its very interesting

Benny, Has anybody involved in this carried out an environmental impact study? I don't think so. The RSPB have funded research into the effect on birds on other schemes, they can afford it for the simple reason that they have 1,000,000+ paying members (the Atr have about 20,000 at the moment I believe), not just non contributing opinions, no pay, no say.

Who cares about a few fish? Certainly not the wider 'Establishment' of which Pondy's group is a part.

Of course I've read the ATr view(s), and I've discussed the matter with them. I've been a member since it started and was a member of the ACA for about 35 years before that.

This has come to you a bit late, this isn't the first Hydro application and it won't be the last. With Govt policy and 'green' subsidies, there could be these schemes on nearly every weir in the country. I believe that this 'might' result in about 0.5% of our electricity needs.

Stu

 

[bennygesserit]

Yes I have come to this late , completely agree.

 

[Nathan Walter]

Benny, Has anybody involved in this carried out an environmental impact study? I don't think so. The RSPB have funded research into the effect on birds on other schemes, they can afford it for the simple reason that they have 1,000,000+ paying members (the Atr have about 20,000 at the moment I believe), not just non contributing opinions, no pay, no say.

Who cares about a few fish? Certainly not the wider 'Establishment' of which Pondy's group is a part.

Of course I've read the ATr view(s), and I've discussed the matter with them. I've been a member since it started and was a member of the ACA for about 35 years before that.

This has come to you a bit late, this isn't the first Hydro application and it won't be the last. With Govt policy and 'green' subsidies, there could be these schemes on nearly every weir in the country. I believe that this 'might' result in about 0.5% of our electricity needs.

Stu

Have to agree with this 100%. If all of those anglers out there who are not members of the AT stopped all the rhetoric about "well I think I'll wait and see what happens in the AT before I join" and actually put their money directly into fighting for their sport, then we might have a chance. This is a prime example at just how little clout we have. We are a tiny voice in a very big political world and I'm afraid without the support of anglers, that's exactly how it is going to stay. If only instead of constantly bemoaning how hard done by we all are, you actually did something about it.

On the flip side of that, I am very disappointed to hear that the AT were contacted and never responded. Why? I'll be emailing the AT and asking the question and drawing their attention to this thread.

 

[bennygesserit]

My specific questions would be

Has an enviro impact assesment been completed, who paid for it , is there an online copy.

Is there an expected fish kill from the screw ?

Will the fish passes be regularly inspected to make sure they are not blocked.

Does anyone from Abingdon have a view on the ATr's published views on hydro , do they see themselves fitting the ATrs view of a successfull project ?


Many thanks !

 

[dezza]

For as long as we keep paying them they still hold all the cards ... it's really that simple.

As a matter of interest, how many of you contributing to this thread are members of The Angling Trust?

----------------------
Life Member - Angling Trust

 

[jasonbean1]

and thats the most important question in all this!

 

[bennygesserit]

and thats the most important question in all this!

Its certainly a real factor in this but lets not cloud the clarity of the thread