Angling Trust Angry at ‘Shambolic’ EA

cg74

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and thats the most important question in all this!

What's that?

-Why have the Thames region EA team failed yet AGAIN to engage with all of a river's 'stakeholders' in a consultation?

-Why don't the interested parties (anglers) bombard the hell out of the EA expressing their concerns with this project and their utter disdain over the lack of consultation with angling organisations/bodies.
And demand to see the evidence that was used to establish this project is environmentally sound.

-Why do fools gather on threads like this; is it just to spout off pointless nothingness?

Was "the most important question" listed by me?


Oh and big pat on the back to Benny; you're obviously a man with some gumption. Who despite not being a river angler and doesn't even live in the Abingdon area, he has done more good on this subject than everyone else on this thread put together!
 

bennygesserit

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Colin while I would love to bask in the glory , and thanks for your kind words, All I did was send an email the credit really goes to Paul Buckingham ( Pondy ) for joining us and addressing our concerns.

I sincerely hope he finishes that process.
 

cg74

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Colin while I would love to bask in the glory , and thanks for your kind words, All I did was send an email the credit really goes to Paul Buckingham ( Pondy ) for joining us and addressing our concerns.

I sincerely hope he finishes that process.

Benny, it may not have been a huge amount of effort on your part but it's a lot more effort than anyone else on this thread would've bothered to put in.

It'll be interesting to see how many actually bother contacting the EA to tell them of their annoyance at the lack of open consultation was that undertaken, plus asking exactly what surveys have been conducted to evaluate any environmental impact.

Because the EA officers present at last weeks UTFC meeting, certainly didn't have any answers whatsoever to Richard Knowles's barrage of questions.
 
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Jeff Woodhouse

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It's been raining and I can't get on with any work outdoors and not being interested in Queenie things I looked this thread up at the suggestion of a colleague....

(from Pondy- apparently) - We were contacted by a guy from the Angling Trust who we invited to have a meeting with us but he failed to reply to any correspondence so as yet nobody from the angling community has attempted to meet with us.
That guy being Dr Alan Butterworth who has been mentioned already. I have been in contact with Alan and he kindly reforwarded (as I lost some emails last year) his objections to the scheme and given me permission to reprint them here. -

Abingdon – Objection to WR Application 29.09.2011

RE: Water Resources Application NPS/WR/005499 by Abingdon Hydro

Community Group for the River Thames, Abingdon

On behalf of the Angling Trust, I object to this scheme on the grounds

of the insufficient environmental information supplied and its
potential impact on the weirpool habitat and associated fish
populations. Yet again an inadequate application has been allowed to
get to this stage.

It is widely accepted that the principle species at risk from

hydropower schemes are the fish populations, and habitats at risk are
the stretches of river depleted of water. The "Habitat and Species
Report" rightly makes considerable efforts describing nearby
conservation sites and their associated species, but only has 5 lines
devoted to fish, and just 4 lines on "open water"
. The report
concludes that “As a development the construction and operation of the
proposed HEP facility can be viewed as benign as far as biodiversity
is concerned. No loss of species or habitats is anticipated, given the
limited “footprint” of the proposal”. This is completely unjustified,
and the potential "footprint" is not "limited". The hydropower
consultant also concludes that there will be "no loss of fish habitat"
- that conclusion cannot be assumed from the Habitat and Species
Report, and I am not aware that he has any fisheries or ecology
qualifications or has done any other work to allow this conclusion to
be made.

The EA's "Good Practice Guide" correctly describes weirpool habitats

on heavily impounded rivers, such as the Thames, as highly important
and dependant on the flow and energy of water entering it, including
mid-range flows to maintain the habitat. This weirpool is known as a
significant spawning location for barbel and it is an important
fishery. This proposal will completely alter the flow regime, and only
leave a very low flow (presumed to be Q95, but is not specified)
directly entering the weirpool for a majority of the year. The effect
of this requires very careful evaluation, and should require a
proportional distribution of flows.

The proposal is for three 4-blade Archimedean screws; these have not,

as far as I am aware, been approved as being safe for fish passage if
unscreened, and therefore cannot be described as "fish neutral". The
design is to take the flow at right angles from the entrance of the
Abbey Stream. This will create high water velocities in the immediate
vicinity upstream. The Abbey Stream itself is a significant fishery
and offers refuge for both young and adult fish, especially in the
Winter. Any fish entering or exiting the Abbey Stream will be at risk
of being entrained, as will fish which may have just exited the fish
pass. There is also significant risk of bank erosion.

The scheme rightly includes a fish pass, which must be suitable for

all species and therefore the Denil option mentioned is not suitable,
the Larinier may be if correctly located.

The method by which levels will be controlled is not described. In

general, levels on the Thames are not maintained to a precision
suitable for hydropower. There is a specific danger of fluctuating
upstream and downstream water levels which may affect the river
habitats and associated wetlands, as well as resulting in navigation
issues. This needs resolution.

There may be an economically and environmentally acceptable scheme as

this location, but it is not possible to determine this one given the
standard of information submitted. It should be rejected.

Dr Alan Butterworth

Technical Director
Angling Trust

------------------------------------------------------

This was received as he had an exchange of detailed emails with a Richard Riggs who, he assumed, would have discussed them with the other team members.

I am a representative of the Middle Thames Consultative (aka TVAA) and this area around Abingdon is part of the Upper Thames Fishery Consultatives area. I would add that Dr Butterworth is more than very familiar with this weir and its importance as he used to be the head of the fisheries department for all the Thames area of the EA.


(more later, can't make the post too long)



PS - I can't read the original FM article as it seems "You don't have sufficient privileges to view this page." Does everyone else see the article and is it just me, a former editor of the site, that can't read it?

PPS - Just checked - I can't read any articles on FM, is someone trying to hide something? No wonder I don't post any longer. :mad:
 
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bennygesserit

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Do you mean the article that started this thread ? Yes I can
 

wangler 123

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With river angling on the decline, thanks to commercial fisheries, I am not surprised to read that hydro-scheme applications are given the green light.We anglers have had at least 4 years to encourage ALL anglers to join Angling Trust & Fish Legal(AT&FL) then by now the governing body would probably have 5 times the money it has now. But no, we do nothing, or say "my club is a member of the trust so why should I need to join? AT&FL has within it's ranks the knowledge and know how, but it's representatives ain't going to work for nothing. "Pay nothing and that's what you will get back". Of course we anglers are right in thinking that the impact of hydro-schemes will spell disaster for our rivers, not just for fishing but the whole ecology and integrity of our rivers.
I have just asked the agency why some weirs on our local river were" notched" some years ago?, the reply was, "they had no idea". So If they had no idea will they replace the notches and restore the weirs back to as they were? NO.
Seems that as soon as anyone uses that magical word "GREEN" we all think it's OK! So let's go, don't check to see if the other lights are RED.
Groups like TAC are doing a fantastic job on the Thames , but if we could all join up for a common cause the nation would benefit.
Anglers , Forfit 5 bags of boilies for a week, join AT&FL and claim what you are paying for. The others will then be GREEN but with envy :D
Like the others in this forum I too am worried as to where angling will be in the future.
Final note . I remember how good nuclear power was going to be, the answer to all our future problems, that too was a good idea, what are we doing with it now?
 

pondy

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It's been raining and I can't get on with any work outdoors and not being interested in Queenie things I looked this thread up at the suggestion of a colleague....

That guy being Dr Alan Butterworth who has been mentioned already. I have been in contact with Alan and he kindly reforwarded (as I lost some emails last year) his objections to the scheme and given me permission to reprint them here. -

Abingdon – Objection to WR Application 29.09.2011

RE: Water Resources Application NPS/WR/005499 by Abingdon Hydro

Community Group for the River Thames, Abingdon

On behalf of the Angling Trust, I object to this scheme on the grounds

of the insufficient environmental information supplied and its
potential impact on the weirpool habitat and associated fish
populations. Yet again an inadequate application has been allowed to
get to this stage.

It is widely accepted that the principle species at risk from

hydropower schemes are the fish populations, and habitats at risk are
the stretches of river depleted of water. The "Habitat and Species
Report" rightly makes considerable efforts describing nearby
conservation sites and their associated species, but only has 5 lines
devoted to fish, and just 4 lines on "open water"
. The report
concludes that “As a development the construction and operation of the
proposed HEP facility can be viewed as benign as far as biodiversity
is concerned. No loss of species or habitats is anticipated, given the
limited “footprint” of the proposal”. This is completely unjustified,
and the potential "footprint" is not "limited". The hydropower
consultant also concludes that there will be "no loss of fish habitat"
- that conclusion cannot be assumed from the Habitat and Species
Report, and I am not aware that he has any fisheries or ecology
qualifications or has done any other work to allow this conclusion to
be made.

The EA's "Good Practice Guide" correctly describes weirpool habitats

on heavily impounded rivers, such as the Thames, as highly important
and dependant on the flow and energy of water entering it, including
mid-range flows to maintain the habitat. This weirpool is known as a
significant spawning location for barbel and it is an important
fishery. This proposal will completely alter the flow regime, and only
leave a very low flow (presumed to be Q95, but is not specified)
directly entering the weirpool for a majority of the year. The effect
of this requires very careful evaluation, and should require a
proportional distribution of flows.

The proposal is for three 4-blade Archimedean screws; these have not,

as far as I am aware, been approved as being safe for fish passage if
unscreened, and therefore cannot be described as "fish neutral". The
design is to take the flow at right angles from the entrance of the
Abbey Stream. This will create high water velocities in the immediate
vicinity upstream. The Abbey Stream itself is a significant fishery
and offers refuge for both young and adult fish, especially in the
Winter. Any fish entering or exiting the Abbey Stream will be at risk
of being entrained, as will fish which may have just exited the fish
pass. There is also significant risk of bank erosion.

The scheme rightly includes a fish pass, which must be suitable for

all species and therefore the Denil option mentioned is not suitable,
the Larinier may be if correctly located.

The method by which levels will be controlled is not described. In

general, levels on the Thames are not maintained to a precision
suitable for hydropower. There is a specific danger of fluctuating
upstream and downstream water levels which may affect the river
habitats and associated wetlands, as well as resulting in navigation
issues. This needs resolution.

There may be an economically and environmentally acceptable scheme as

this location, but it is not possible to determine this one given the
standard of information submitted. It should be rejected.

Dr Alan Butterworth

Technical Director
Angling Trust

------------------------------------------------------

This was received as he had an exchange of detailed emails with a Richard Riggs who, he assumed, would have discussed them with the other team members.

I am a representative of the Middle Thames Consultative (aka TVAA) and this area around Abingdon is part of the Upper Thames Fishery Consultatives area. I would add that Dr Butterworth is more than very familiar with this weir and its importance as he used to be the head of the fisheries department for all the Thames area of the EA.


(more later, can't make the post too long)



PS - I can't read the original FM article as it seems "You don't have sufficient privileges to view this page." Does everyone else see the article and is it just me, a former editor of the site, that can't read it?

PPS - Just checked - I can't read any articles on FM, is someone trying to hide something? No wonder I don't post any longer. :mad:

Thank you for posting this, Richard Riggs did discuss these matters with the rest of the directors and we suggested setting up a meeting with any interested parties but, as I have said previously, nobody has come forward yet regarding a meeting. We would be happy to work with the ATr, the EA and any other agency concerned to develop the project, we have limited understanding of the claims made in this objection and would be glad of some proper constructive input from Dr Butterworth and anyone else with the relevant knowledge and understanding. The last thing we want is to install a scheme that upsets anglers and more importantly the fish and the local environment.

Until someone contacts us to put their concerns to us we can't really do anything more than we already are, the reason I joined this forum is to show that we are not bulldozing people aside and we do consider the environment and other river users.

The canoeists had major concerns and by collaborating with them we have reached an agreement that keeps both sides happy, we really do want to have the same involvement with the anglers so please come forward or we will have to go ahead with the scheme without your input.

Paul.
 

bennygesserit

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My specific questions would be

Has an enviro impact assesment been completed, who paid for it , is there an online copy.

Is there an expected fish kill from the screw ?

Will the fish passes be regularly inspected to make sure they are not blocked.

Does anyone from Abingdon have a view on the ATr's published views on hydro , do they see themselves fitting the ATrs view of a successfull project ?


Many thanks !

Paul are you saying that questions as detailed above need addressing face to face rather than in a forum ?

---------- Post added at 10:52 ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 ----------

Paul are you saying that questions as detailed above need addressing face to face rather than in a forum ?

Is it that I havent done the required reading ?
 

chub_on_the_block

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I wonder if there has been any environmental monitoring work by the EA (or anyone else) in connection with other hydropower schemes - the one at Romney Weir on the Thames for example which i think was one of the first of this type.

I dont know if the Romney scheme is even operational yet, or whether a baseline environmental assessment was carried out. Ideally, monitoring of fish losses/habitat change would enable a more informed view going forward and possibly enable rejection of damaging schemes or further safeguards to be built into schemes. The EA is supposed to support the Precautionary Principle so should not be permitting further schemes until they are proved to be safe?

My understanding is that this scheme so far only has an approved abstraction licence. As it is non-consumptive (all water being returned) that is not surprising.
 

Jeff Woodhouse

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Thank you, but if I sign out and view as a guest I can read, if I sign in as Jeff Woodhouse it still says "You don't have sufficient privileges to view this page." So what has someone done to me that classifies me as less than a guest?

No matter if it's political, I can't be bothered.

More importantly -
The last thing we want is to install a scheme that upsets anglers and more importantly the fish and the local environment.
If you don't want to harm the fish (their breeding areas in particular) or their environment (the water quality) then don't build hydros on Thames weirs!

The amount of electricity that hydros, even Archimedes Screw types, generate is pathetic compared to other forms of renewable energy creation. Take a look at the following table of plans submitted to the Government covering all aspects of renewable energy and just see what hydro represents. In all cases 0.2% and that is when there is a hydro on almost every weir on every river in the country truly killing off thousands of breeding grounds for rheophilic species of fish such as barbel, chub, dace, and minnows.

jeff-woodhouse-albums-strange-things-seen-whilst-fishing-picture3080-five-energy-plans-uk.jpg

The entire argument for hydro does not hold water (pardon the pun) and the damage it will do is irreparable for at least the lifetime of the plant. It would be like deliberately breaking a precious Ming vase, you can stick it together of sorts, but it will never funtion again as a vase and the value will have completely gone.

If you want to be really efficient, have a 200 ft wind turbine erected outside your house in the back garden. Or how about a nice waste incinerator just down the road, the bonus with this one is we don't have to fill any more holes in the ground with garbage.

However, you say that you're not doing this for any profit as it's a 'community scheme' so why are you promising dividends and high returns to people that might invest in the scheme? Isn't that for profit? You say, if I remember, that it may yield profits of up to 18% (it may be another scheme I am confusing it with), but I doubt anyone will see any return and many may even lose money on such a scheme. If it were not for Government subsidy, our tax money - the feed in tarriff, you wouldn't make a wooden nickle on it, that's for sure.

If you want a good investment tip listen up - take all your savings out of the banks and from tomorrow, put a £10 bet on EVERY favourite horse in EVERY race being run EVERY day for 1 year. I can almost guarantee you will make between 15 and 18% on your stake monies over the period of a year. It has been tested in the past and it causes a lot less harm than hydro power.

You want reasons why you shouldn't go ahead with this scheme - you've had them -
Apart from looking ugly - it is the way that flow velocities may be changed and this will affect aspects such as aeration and the nature of the riverbed. In the Thames, fast flowing well-oxygenated water is confined in its distribution to weirpools - with an effective lake between each of them. In this case any degradation of the weirpool habitat or function within the rivers ecology could have serious implications for fish not only using the weirpool itself but further downstream.
The flow modelling may give some clarity of what to expect under different flow scenarios, but would this modelling extend to address changes in the river bed (siltation) or oxygenation and the knock-on consequences for river life? Imagine if it caused siltation of the existing weirpool - who would then fund the weirpool dredging and how would this impact upon an important habitat be redressed? In my view there should be detailed consideration from a gemorphologist (who understands sediment transport in rivers) as well as a freshwater ecologist/fisheries biologist, as well as hydrologists who examine flow. In the Thames the modified channel and abstraction has already changed the river towards being a very long impounded lake so as i said the weirpools perform an important function as is.

WELL SAID CHUBBY!

There could be a lot of reasons why the ATr haven't entered into a dialogue with Abington Hydro. Not least of which is that there are a lot of these schemes being proposed at the moment and because hardly any of us have joined and put up any money, they have severely restricted recources. Or they may be concentrating their fire on the EA. We don't know. I hope that we get an update from them.
Yes they are. I'm part of a sub-group meeting with the EA every six months (not often enough perhaps) on the Thames hydro power schemes. This group includes Dr Alan Butterworth and Dave Harvey of TAC as well as some former members of RFEREC.

It might be nice to have someone from the Upper Thames Consultative at the next one as more and more schemes are being planned up there.

Has anybody involved in this carried out an environmental impact study? I don't think so.
I believe this scheme doesn't require a EIA as the plants will generate less than 500kW. It's a pity, but a fact.

I would ask you Pondy, has any work at all been done by your group to study the levels of dissolved oxygen in the lower part of the weir and have they taken into account any research material as to what the make up of the biomass is in the head waters and the run off? Have your group questioned anglers who fish both upper and lower sections to discover what species are dominent in their catches?

You see, it would be no good me turning up to meet you because I don't have the above answers, but you could find some maybe by contacting John Sutton of the Fisheries Division of the EA in Wallingford - so not far to go. If you PM me, I'll pass you his phone number and email.

Finally, you claim to be an angler yourself of 40 years. Being an angler these days is, or should be, more than just a catcher of fish unless it's someone trying to make a name and sponsorship for himself. And it's no use just claiming that you care for fish because you use or don't use certain bits of tackle that are blessed or cursed. Every angler owes it to himself to learn more about fish, their lives, their breeding, their environment, the weed and insect life that supports them and with that to do everything in one's power to protect it and where possible improve it - NOT DESTROY IT!

Sadly, hydropower does only one thing in the environment and it isn't good.
 

david harvey1

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The bigger picture is that Romney was meant to be the first Thames scheme and used as a pilot. In 2008 that assurance was given to the then RFERAC that no other schemes would be promoted until Romney had be built and monitored for affects on the river.

Romney is now built but due to technical difficulties is still not operational and that is over 10 years from the original concept

The EA with no doubt pressure from DEFRA and ultimately DECC broke this promise, link here Angling Trust Latest News

DECC and DEFRA are the ones pushing for Hydro, I somehow doubt given the chance the EA would want anything to do with it. A Point of note is that its not EA fisheries promoting theses schemes.

Lastly as I could go on for many hours about this, Hydro is only about money.

Hydro developers get paid by selling the electricity back to the national grid through something called Feed in Tariffs, or FITS. If anyone has got solar panels on your roof, this is the same. Without FITS, I doubt any Hydro would exist.

EDIT, you posted ahead of me Jeff, but more comprehensive
 
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Jeff Woodhouse

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I dont know if the Romney scheme is even operational yet, or whether a baseline environmental assessment was carried out. Ideally, monitoring of fish losses/habitat change would enable a more informed view going forward and possibly enable rejection of damaging schemes or further safeguards to be built into schemes. The EA is supposed to support the Precautionary Principle so should not be permitting further schemes until they are proved to be safe?
Good points again Chubby.

I don't believe any assessments were carried out before the Romney scheme was approved (perhaps it was a rush job as an Anniversary present to the Queen ;) ) The EA have promised to carry out assessments at the site (at the expense of rod licence payers .... :mad:) to see if anything will change, but from what, no one will know. It still isn't operational as yet as a cable connecting it to Windsor Castle was not installed under the lock at an advantagious time so a separate tunnelling has to be done now further upstream.

It is a point worth repeating that the EA originally promised NO FURTHER hydro schemes until the Romney plants had been working for two years to evaluate their efectiveness and any subsequent damage. Yes, the EA used to have a "Precautionary Principle", but when I asked about this at our March meeting they said it was considered to be reasonable with hydro power to 'take the risk' (not their terminology, but amounted to same).
 

chub_on_the_block

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For info, i just found an EA Environmental Statement (Feb 2012) re the proposed imminent refurbishment of Rushy Weir (located upstream of Abingdon). In this case, the EA are aware that during construction flow patterns and areas of deposition/erosion will be affected by the works - so will be monitored to ensure no long-term changes result. The report emphasises the importance of the weirpools for fish and other wildlife and seeks to ensure best practice in the weir replacement.

http://www.environment-agency.gov.u...ronmental_statement_non-technical_summary.pdf

Thanks for the kind words Jeff
 

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And for info, these are all the other current proposed Thames sites, most are at the very early stage bar Teddington, Goring and Romney.

Osney Weir
Goring weir
Sutton Courtenay
Sandford
Buscot Weir
Bell weir
Sunbury weir
Romney weir
Teddington weir
Rushey Lock
Shifford Lock
Marlow
Boulter's Weir
Days Weir
Marsh Weir
 
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bennygesserit

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I still need to complete the required reading but having been involved in various projects to reduce data centre power consumption and to turn unused kit off overnight , the saying we have now in the team is that a green pound is worth two real pounds , mainly to meet reduced carbon footprints or more accurately to be seen to be reducing them.

Also , once a scheme is in place , a sustainable scheme , it could run for many years , so the business case should take a long term view when adding up the financial rewards.

It seems the EA are being pressurised into these schemes judging from one of the links posted here.

Now to do the reading.

---------- Post added at 15:07 ---------- Previous post was at 13:45 ----------

Cheers Jeff (and thanks Alan)

This is the actual EA decision over Abingdon:

Environment Agency - Abingdon Hydro Community Interest Company

Very good link this thanks , like I said green pound is worth two , govt wants to achieve fifteen percent renewable Energy
 

david harvey1

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Yes mate lots of reading to do, its an extensive and emotive subject for sure.

This is worth a read, very telling as to why Hydro is pure folly http://www.withouthotair.com/


Comes down to a single question, what damage is acceptable to a river in order to generate green electricity?

In our view none whatsoever and until it can be proved beyond doubt that run of the river Hydropower is harmless to fish, invertebrates, the overall ecology and biodiversity, we have to fight against it.
 
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