Barbel Society vs Angling Trust

[Fred Bonney]

Alan, there is no accounting for know it alls, they are in many aspects of our life.
Like the pub bore, most people just ignore them, to do otherwise encourages them to spout.
You know you are fishing with the best interests of the fish in mind, so why let them affect you?

The Barbel Handling Code is an advisory document Bob, which has been accepted and utilised by many angling clubs/single species organisations.
You are also way out of date, and there is possibly the problem in itself.
The BS are not members of the Angling Trust, not because of any another organisation, but because to join would prevent us running certain aspects of the Society our way.
I'm certainly not aware of any ongoing dispute, and I have been on the committee for nearly 4 years !
Just out of interest Bob, is the other organisation,whomever they were, still in existence, if so are they bearing old grudges?

 

[Bob Hornegold]

Fred,

As you must know, it's not !!

Specimen Angling in the way of things is a very small part of the overall picture in Angling.

Without everyone getting behind our kind of angling we will never have a strong voice in the Trust.

Still as long as you do your way, thats okay, it's a Free World mate !!

Alan,

Do something about it, make your voice heard.

Your a member, it's your right to have your say, but just moaning about what they have not done (in your eye's) will not help.

Bob

 

[904_cannon]

I was going to say...

but its all been said before. As Bob said you'll get nowhere sitting on the sidelines and expecting someone else to do the work, one day someone else wont be there.

As for being a poor OAP, so am I, but manage when they are held to get to the different meetings, and I live a good many more miles away from 'the centre'

Without the former groups, NASG/NASA/SAA there would now not be multi rod use, live baiting, etc etc, all brought about bye 'someone else' AND please don't forget, that is if any even know or even care, that the SA group members of the AT had a very big input into the recently introduced new byelaw's relating to fish retention. AND the SAA was responsible for the widely acclaimed Code of Angling Practice

AND to blow Mike Heylins trumpet, 'cos he wont, had it not been for Mike, as Sercretary of the then SAA, going through the Marine Bill with several fine tooth-combs, much of what we now enjoy as 'pleasure anglers' would have been taken away, without many even knowing or even caring about.

Fred, you'll need to go back further than your 4 years

A few weeks back I was told that the AT is to include a Specialist Angling/Angler section on it's web site and was asked to supply information - no pressure there then, Will

Bottom line is - get involved!!
Most regions now have their own AT Freshwater Forums, its up to you to make them work. With the cut backs in EA funding and the demise of the RFERAC's it is even more important that anglers have an input at a local/regional level. The AT can help achieve this, the BS's etc cant.

And finally Bob, as for not being keen on S.S. groups, you obviously have not been a member of the CSG

 

[Bob Hornegold]

John, as an OAP I can't afford it mate

But in reality, get behind the Angling Trust, they are all we have got at the highest level.

And that alone should be a reason to Join !

Bob

 

[904_cannon]

As an aside, I'll copy the e-mail I received recently from Dr. Alan Butterworth, Technical Director, Angling Trust

I provide technical advice to the Angling Trust on hydropower issues after having retired from the Environment Agency where I was latterly the fisheries lead on hydro issues. I would like to bring a couple of things to your attention and possible dissemination to your members.

The guidance that the Agency provide to advice both internal staff and would-be hydro developers is being reviewed. The review was only achieved after a lot of pushing by the Angling Trust and others as we feel it is totally inadequate to protect fisheries. The consultation can be viewed and responded to here:
https://consult.environment-agency.gov.uk/portal/ho/br/gpg/review.

It would be good to get responses from bodies such as yours and individual members and clubs, The Trust is putting together some bullet points which will appear on their website.

One of my concerns is the potential impact on weir pool habitats. I am sure you are more aware than most the value of these on heavily impounded lowland rivers such as the Trent and Thames. Even where hydro turbines are situated on or adjacent to the weir, little flow will actually flow into the main body of the weir pool and that which exits the turbine will have much of its energy taken out (obviously!)

This logically must affect the habitat, especially the gravel shallows on which chub, dace and barbel spawn. The EA have already sanctioned what I believe to be damaging schemes on the Trent, Thames and Warks Avon, with many more planned. There is a scheme which has been in existence for a number of years on the Trent at Beeston. Consultants have concluded that the habitat and fish population has not been damaged, but I have seen catch data which indicates a big decline of barbel in the locality, so much so that the angler no longer fishes it.

I wonder whether any of your members fish, or have fished, there and whether they have any observations, is it possible to ask?

If you'd like more information on the issues with hydropower, just ask.

Regards

Alan



Dr Alan Butterworth. Technical Director, Angling Trust

 

[Fred Bonney]

Sorry John you don't have to go back over 4 years!
What's wrong with now?

The majority of the existing committee weren't involved over 4 years ago, so what are we, the current committee, missing out on?

And Bob, I'm sorry but if you were told the way you run your household didn't fit in with somebody elses way of running your household, would you hand over your purse to them?

I know others did, and look what happened!

Also, I think most people wouldn't accept more than two rods to one angler fishing on a river!

 

[alan whittington]

John,im one of those that used to be on several committees,go to certain report backs from GOFCA,NFA and at times the NRA,its not for me im afraid,like most of the members of the trust,thats why i joined,so the 'voice of angling',could be just that,if the trust wants us all to speak for ourselves,thats ok,do it without anglers money.

 

[904_cannon]

As many will be aware I'd stopped subscribing to the ATr but it was the death of dear old Fred French that brought me back.
Fred had given most of his adult life into helping to bring about a single organisation for ALL anglers and angling.

It must have been only a few weeks before he sadly passed away, and was very poorly then, but he still took the time (and a great deal of effort as he'd been using an oxygen mask for some time) to telephone me late at night to give advice on a matter I'd previously e-mailed him over.

The Angling Trust was so important in Fred's life, and if you hadn't had the pleasure of knowing Fred he'd had a pretty good and full one, as Ive said to others, he'll be missed by a hell of a lot who never even knew or heard of him.

Fred, and a few of his ilk, are reason enough for us to make sure the ATr works.
If any of the single species/specimen groups went tomorrow, only a few would know, worry or care; could any of you say, hand on heart, the same re the ATr?

 

[Bob Hornegold]

Sorry John you don't have to go back over 4 years!
What's wrong with now?

The majority of the existing committee weren't involved over 4 years ago, so what are we, the current committee, missing out on?

And Bob, I'm sorry but if you were told the way you run your household didn't fit in with somebody elses way of running your household, would you hand over your purse to them?

I know others did, and look what happened!

Also, I think most people wouldn't accept more than two rods to one angler fishing on a river!

-------------


Fred

And what is that about Two Rods To One Angler on the River ?

We all know you can't use more than two rods on a river.

Maybe you would like to explain ?

This should be enlightening !

Bob

---------- Post added at 11:35 ---------- Previous post was at 11:34 ----------

And enlighten us - what did happen ?

 

[Fred Bonney]

I'll answer your second one first Bob.
No real representation for specimen groups although they funded!

Go to Cromwell Weir, that'll show you what the multi-rod gets you!
Like a lot of things Bob, on paper the idea looks good, but it doesn't allow for those without the same common sense approach as those who put forward the good ideas!

A bit like another one of my pets.
The idea that it's good to have your rods fishing the river whilst your tucked up inside a bivvy asleep.
Ok on a lake with room, but not on a river with unknown qualities, and somebody without that extra ounce!!

 

[Bob Hornegold]

I'll answer your second one first Bob.
No real representation for specimen groups!

Go to Cromwell Weir, that'll show you what the multi-rod gets you!
Like a lot of things Bob, on paper the idea looks good, but it doesn't allow for those without the same common sense approach as those who put forward the good ideas!

A bit like another one of my pets.
The idea that it's good to have your rods fishing the river whilst your tucked up inside a bivvy asleep.
Ok on a lake with room, but not on a river with unknown qualities, and somebody without that extra ounce!!

--------

Did you not Read Johns reply ?

Each area is getting representation through the regoinal Fresh water Committee's.

And more than two rods on a River is illeagal, get in touch and get it sorted !!

The change in the that Law happened on the NASA watch, which of course was before many of the New Committee according to YOU !

I'm affraid bringing up those sort of past tense situation, shows exactly what you are about.

And throwing insults at me will do you very little good, as I have a very broad back ?

Bob

 

[Simon K]

Go to Cromwell Weir, that'll show you what the multi-rod gets you!
Like a lot of things Bob, on paper the idea looks good, but it doesn't allow for those without the same common sense approach as those who put forward the good ideas!

A bit like another one of my pets.
The idea that it's good to have your rods fishing the river whilst your tucked up inside a bivvy asleep.
Ok on a lake with room, but not on a river with unknown qualities, and somebody without that extra ounce!!

What does this have to do with the ATr, Fred? We know your "opinions" and don't want to have to ruin the thread by putting them in their place (again) mg:?

This business with the B.S. not wanting to be "railroaded" by the A.Tr. through joining is pure egotistical wriggling. Far from being considered as a "major" player in angling (which is really what the B.S. wants) it will find itself marginalised beyond redemption.

From the Govts point of view, would they rather deal with a roomful of infighters trying to shout each other down, or a single cohesive voice?

In my trade we've already been down this exact route and have made massive inroads into cross-party politics by delegating responsibility to one organisation. Some organisations went down the B.S. route and were simply by-passed. Now they've come on board because they had no choice.

It works. fact.

 

[904_cannon]

Oh dear me Fred, it was your good self who brought 'multi rods and rivers' into the equation. Personally I've never used more than one - anywhere.
All I was trying to say, it was the organisations representing specimen/specialist anglers which fought for their rights, and still do through the ATr. Did the BS have any input on the recent bye-law changes? (they do now limit the number of barbel that can be used/taken for live bait, so that has to be good?)

As Bob said, no more than two rods can legally be used on running waters when bait fishing, and only one, believe it or not, when fly fishing
I'm not sure about when fishing reservoirs though, but even Ron would have difficulty in shooting out two fast sinkers at the same time.

 

[Fred Bonney]

Right, lets go back and have a look!

Bob said;[I] did you not read John's reply[/I]
Well yes I did but this has happened only recently, which is the point i'm making and it is you who is raking up what happened years ago.

....more thantwo rods is illegal...

Really ,so nobody can legally fish a river with more than two rods,where's that law then? Is your interperpretation, as I hinted earlier, not thinking of the whole picture?

"...before many of the new conmmittee according to you"

Well yes that's what I said, and that's fact.

I'm affraid bringing up those sort of past tense situation, shows exactly what you are about.

Does it, enlighten me ? Because I have no idea what happened prior to the last 4 years so haven't brought them up.

And throwing insults at me will do you very little good, as I have a very broad back ?

Where was that then?

Simon said;

What does this have to do with the ATr, Fred? We know your "opinions" and don't want to have to ruin the thread by putting them in their place (again) ?

I refer you back to the very first question, which was not solely about the Atr. Are you saying that an opinion is not permitted?

This business with the B.S. not wanting to be "railroaded" by the A.Tr. through joining is pure egotistical wriggling. Far from being considered as a "major" player in angling (which is really what the B.S. wants) it will find itself marginalised beyond redemption.

What justification have you for making that statement ?
I also never said "railroaded" so why put it in inverted commas??
You have no idea why we didn't join ,so you're talking through your hat, as is your usual practice!
Come to that who told you that was what the BS really wants?
Something only in your mind, I think

From the Govts point of view, would they rather deal with a roomful of infighters trying to shout each other down, or a single cohesive voice?
In my trade we've already been down this exact route and have made massive inroads into cross-party politics by delegating responsibility to one organisation. Some organisations went down the B.S. route and were simply by-passed. Now they've come on board because they had no choice.

The BS route was to protect the independant running of the organisation, and protecting it's members interests.
The Atr's requirements wouldn't let us do that, .

[/I] It works. fact. [/I]

I'm sure it does

I am personally a supporter of Atr on an indiviual basis, but can see that what is required of the BSwas not in it's members interest.
I will say it again, and you have no idea whatsover what that is.

John said;

Oh dear me Fred, it was your good self who brought 'multi rods and rivers' into the equation. Personally I've never used more than one - anywhere.
All I was trying to say, it was the organisations representing specimen/specialist anglers which fought for their rights, and still do through the ATr.

I dont think it was, it was you
Without the former groups, NASG/NASA/SAA there would now not be multi rod use,.....

Did the BS have any input on the recent bye-law changes? (they do now limit the number of barbel that can be used/taken for live bait, so that has to be good?)

As I recall we did have an opinion when asked.


If some stopped harping/ insinuating back to what happened in the past and actually asked us our views on a current basis, then who knows it may be something to discuss.
As it is we haven't been approached, and so have the same stance.
Attacking the BS for what may have happened in the past won't!
Time to move on you old boys things change over time!

 

[Fred Bonney]

Ok, now let’s ask a question about the Angling Trust, but before I do, I confirm I am personally in favour of having a representative body for all angling.

I am a thriving angling association, of say 2000 members, within my club I also have a thriving junior section that is run by members.
Specifically, it is run by those volunteering members who have the required police tested accreditations.
So, at no cost to me as the club.

The question:

If I became affiliated to the Angling Trust, would I still be able to run that junior section as I have done prior to affiliation?

I think I know the answer to this, but I would like those pleading total unity on here, via the Angling Trust to answer.

 

[steph mckenzie]

Mr Corker ......... you are indeed a Bu**er sir <grins>

 

[richiekelly]

isnt this thread a perfect example of why one organisation can never represent all anglers or branches of angling even though we do need one, some dont like carp anglers, others dont like the way that some fish for barbel, some dont like match anglers, on and on round and round it goes never to end with everyone agreeing.

 

[904_cannon]

My humble apologies Fred, Two rods used to be a Northumbria area bye-law, but when the RFERAC's up here are/were packed with people who wouldn't know a barbel if it sucked their **** we could expect anything but common sense. At least the old NRA RFAC's were representative of local anglers.
The last round of appointments even saw a canoeist in a fisheries post (because he was a member of the Tyne Rivers Trust) However with the demise of RFERAC's we might get something in its stead (at least in Northumbria) that reflects the angling world as it is not how it was 100 years ago.
I kid you not, before the new National bye-laws the Northumbria area was the only NRA/EA area not to have had any restriction on the numbers/sizes/species of fish that could be taken - kill a small brown trout and you'd be in court the next day. Close season maggot fishing was still allowed up to quite recent years.

Theres good news from the Tweed for the BS and barbel anglers though Fred. A photograph of a small unidentified fish was e-mailed to the EA Fisheries staff in Newcastle by someone from the Tweed Commissioners (I could be wrong about the body) it turned out to be a barbel. That'll get the Harris Tweed feathers flying.

 

[Simon K]

Both do a great deal for angling and angling conservation, but with £25 in my back pocket, which one should I join?

For various reasons (mainly financial) I put of joining the BS, and didn't renew my AT membership this year.

So given the choice of one, which will I get the most out of?

Here you go Fred. Now work on forming your multi-rods/bivvies on rivers "opinion" into a direct reply to the original question. :wh


In answer to the rest of your response, I'm quite aware of what you say is the stumbling block .......................(because we've been over this ground before, if you recall?)

and I stand by my statement.


The B.S. will have no voice (which is a shame) and the rest of the angling world probably won't care.

Have you polled your members on this issue, or is it in the committees hands alone?

 

[dezza]

I'm going out to do some shopping shortly. At the top of my shopping list is 3 x 4 packs of lager and a bulk bag of cheese and onion!

Are these the first salvos of Barbel Wars II?

Bob?