Bias against match anglers

[The Scarlet Maggot]

I don't need an apology I haven't been offenced but are you really serious when you ask how have you been disrespectful?

Referring to Bob Nudd M.B.E as 'Nob', twice then claiming you aren't knocking or slating.

I think this site is above that.

No one’s above being a nob on occasion EC, even me; Yes I was knocking Bob Nudd, but not the people who fish with elastic or yacht masts.

---------- Post added at 07:59 ---------- Previous post was at 07:48 ----------

And quite frankly EC I think filling an indoor pool with fish to demonstrate tackle is somewhat nobish behavior, its border line mad if you ask me, MBE or no MBE.

 

[Bluenose]

And quite frankly EC I think filling an indoor pool with fish to demonstrate tackle is somewhat nobish behavior, its border line mad if you ask me, MBE or no MBE

I've seen Gord Burton use an indoor pool/tank used to demonstrate various lures and their actions, and how movement of the rod imparts action into the lure. I've seen various match anglers using them to demo how different groundbaits behave once hitting the water and sinking out of site.

On each case I could see the benefit of such a demo. Many people are visual learners and no amount of reading or describing will enable them to understand a certain concept, a visual demo however will!

 

[The Scarlet Maggot]

I've seen Gord Burton use an indoor pool/tank used to demonstrate various lures and their actions, and how movement of the rod imparts action into the lure. I've seen various match anglers using them to demo how different groundbaits behave once hitting the water and sinking out of site.

On each case I could see the benefit of such a demo. Many people are visual learners and no amount of reading or describing will enable them to understand a certain concept, a visual demo however will!

There was me thinking it was all about selling stuff, visual learning wow! Only an opinion here EC, not slating anyone, but just how much of anglings mystery and mystic should we eradicate? Just how effective do we need to get at hauling in a few fish? Where will it end up? big net perhaps?

 

[Graham Whatmore]

One thing is for sure red maggot, if all anglers were like you we would still be using bent pins and garden canes :wh

 

[The Scarlet Maggot]

One thing is for sure red maggot, if all anglers were like you we would still be using bent pins and garden canes :wh

............

 

[Bluenose]

Of course it's about selling but it's also about enabling anglers, especially improvers, to put to best use the gear that they buy.

If you've ever tried to teach a new angler you may have realised that certain kids/adults learn differently to one another. Written instructions aren't that good for someone who doesn't read very well, yet that is something we/most of us here take for granted, hence they may learn via other means!

Van den eynde/sensas etc produced some very good groundbait pamphlets, which were very informative but quite basic when one considered the versatility of several of their mixes. However watching an experienced match angler and England International demonstrate how to mix said groundbaits allowing them break up at different rates and at different depths added a new dimension to understanding how certain groundbaits worked for many other anglers.

The fact is people can and do learn from demo's of that type.

 

[dezza]

And what's wrong with putting a few fish in a tank to enable us to watch their reactions with lures or baits for goodness sake? The Americans have been doing it with bass for donkey's years and no-one has objected. I used to have a little freshwater aquarium years ago with a couple of European perch and a large mouth bass in it. It provided wonderful enertainment until the day came when the bass ate the perch.

And no our sport will never get to netting the fish.

Fair angling with rod and line will continue as long as man studies the habits of fish and devises more effective ways of catching the fish he persues.

Long may this continue, within the realm of fair angling with rod and line of course.

 

[The Scarlet Maggot]

And what's wrong with putting a few fish in a tank to enable us to watch their reactions with lures or baits for goodness sake? The Americans have been doing it with bass for donkey's years and no-one has objected. I used to have a little freshwater aquarium years ago with a couple of European perch and a large mouth bass in it. It provided wonderful enertainment until the day came when the bass ate the perch.

And no our sport will never get to netting the fish.

Fair angling with rod and line will continue as long as man studies the habits of fish and devises more effective ways of catching the fish he persues.

Long may this continue, within the realm of fair angling with rod and line of course.

Whatever floats your boat Ron; I just think it’s a bit perverse, indoor angling, big paddling pool of semi tame fish, going through the motions for the crowd etc… Dosnt represent anything in the natural world.

And the big net, not to be taken literally, but again how much of the mystery must we eradicate, how effective must we become, it must peak at some point or? The Yanks underwater film there fish while fishing, that next no doubt? Great!

 

[Rodney Wrestt]

I've quite enjoyed Red Mag's fishing style on this thread, nicely baited and the swim's bubbling along nicely, in fact I think he may have out Roned our Ron on this one

My opinion about Graham's original question is that for me, I class myself as a pleasure angler. I get my pleasure from catching fish, size is irrelevant to me, I fish for coarse fish through choice and I devour tips from match, specialist and specimen anglers alike and combine their techniques to benefit my own angling.

Match anglers are an outstanding breed, they can catch fish at the most inappropriate time of day and in inhospitable conditions, the tools they use are designed to carry out the job required. I enjoy pole, whip, margin fishing with powerful margin poles or a rod and line. Specialist and specimen anglers will devise rigs and tactics to overcome conditions we all encounter in our angling life and their input regarding bait and terminal tackle has contributed greatly to my angling enjoyment.

There will always be people who decide someone else should not do something because they don't approve even if it was how they found fame in this area in the first place. Usually they claim their previous methods were borne through ignorance and they know better now. To be honest, your conscience should guide you, if you don't feel comfortable with a bait, method or technique....... Don't do it, but please don't try to impose your disapproval onto others, there's enough groups outside our sport for that.

 

[The Scarlet Maggot]

Don't do it, but please don't try to impose your disapproval onto others, there's enough groups outside our sport for that.

Discussion and opinion yes, not imposing anything, I would say if you don’t want things discused openly we shouldn’t start threads like “Bias against match anglers”, that’s just asking for opinions like mine, that some aspects of pole fishing aren’t for me.

---------- Post added at 10:52 ---------- Previous post was at 10:44 ----------

And fish tank fishing, don’t care for that either;

A kind of cross between the Saddam Husain hanging and Mr Craptree… Quality wise I mean, not literally…

YouTube- bob nudd

 

[Rodney Wrestt]

Discussion and opinion yes, not imposing anything, I would say if you don’t want things discused openly we shouldn’t start threads like “Bias against match anglers”, that’s just asking for opinions like mine, that some aspects of pole fishing aren’t for me.

That wasn't directed at yourself R.M.

 

[The Scarlet Maggot]

That wasn't directed at yourself R.M.

Ok, sorry for missing that, Rodney, im still a little foggy in the head from last night

 

[Rodney Wrestt]

Ok, sorry for missing that, Rodney, im still a little foggy in the head from last night

No problem, most people are still a little hazy and will be for a few days yet

 

[Ray Daywalker Clarke]

Over the years fish care has come a long way, for all anglers.

How many of us used to lay fish on the ground to take a quick photo. The nets of today and unhooking matts are top class.

I have seen anglers from all parts of the sport mishandle fish, take a look at some of those on TV. We learn by our mistakes, as long as a keepnet is staked out the right way fine, to me this is far better than holding a fish in a landing net to recover, and i have seen a number of fish in trouble because they haven't been given long enough to recover.

How long does it take to land a fish?????? well that depends on how big the fish is, what kind of fish it is, and what kind of tackle you are using, it takes a lot longer to land a 5lb barbel or carp on a 2lb bottom and 4lb main line and match rod, than it does to land them on a briad hooklink, 10lb line and 2lb tc rod.

I am all for fish welfare, how anglers do that is up to them, as long as the fish are fine, who are we to judge others.

 

[Steve Spiller]

I can't understand why you all jumped on Red Maggot? He expressed an opinion....

I've done the 'Match' thing and got out of it, mainly cos I was cr*p! I don't wanna knock em, but I saw some stuff and I've seen the same and worse stuff from other anglers!

To get back to Grahams original post/point I think the bias is aimed at commercial match anglers on puddles. Why did they leave the rivers? I couldn't believe it the other day when I chatted to Tony Rixon and he told me he hasn't fished a river in 8 years!!! I was gobsmacked!

But has this led to the demise of the rivers? The match anglers have gone and we're all moaning about the rivers.............

 

[Graham Whatmore]

I didn't intend this thread to be about pole angling alone nor was it meant to be a get red maggot thread he decided to put himself in the firing line by dismissing a part of match angling (and pleasure by the way) as a nonsense, shows how little he knows about angling in general. No, it was meant to be a statement of why non match anglers tend to knock match anglers and match angling.

Match anglers along with carp anglers, who also take a lot of abuse incidentally, are the innovators of angling, it is they and their neverending search for ways of fooling the fish that has brought about the massive changes in the way the average angler approaches his sport today. I can only speak about the years that I have fished and it started with the era that saw the likes of Billy Lane and Benny Ashurst and others who brought about a few changes in a match anglers approach to fishing, both on rivers and stillwaters. They are still regarded as icons in our sport but they have since been joined by many more match anglers that thought hard about their tactics and adapted them, altering not just tactics but bait like casters for instance, pellets etc., floats that we take for granted these days such as the stick and waggler to say nothing of the rods and poles. Carp anglers have been mainly responsible for the end gear changes that we also take for granted when we go fishing, hair rigs and boilies spring immediately to mind but thair are loads more again brought about by thinking anglers.

Whether you actively take part in match angling or carp angling is neither here nor there but you are reaping the benefits of participants in those branches of angling so why knock them just because it is considered the 'thing to do' if you aren't one of them when all it really does is highlight your own shortcomings?

 

[The Scarlet Maggot]

shows how little he knows about angling in general.

I don’t consider myself an expert, but a common sense angler, and when I see ways of angling I believe strip the poetry back, like catching fish on elastic or on yacht masts I speak my mind. How you can from these sentiments alone “judge” my angling ability its beyond me, would you care to elaborate for me concretely?



---------- Post added at 03:11 ---------- Previous post was at 03:03 ----------

Instead of attacking my knowledge and ability, why not defend intelligently the methods I think aren’t so savory

Tiring fish on elastic or hoyking fish out on yacht masts, and paddling pool fishing to name but a few.

---------- Post added at 03:14 ---------- Previous post was at 03:11 ----------

Discussion Graham, not pie throwing, educate me, as im obviously lacking in that department according to you.

---------- Post added at 03:48 ---------- Previous post was at 03:14 ----------

Match anglers along with carp anglers, who also take a lot of abuse incidentally, are the innovators of angling, it is they and their neverending search for ways of fooling the fish that has brought about the massive changes in the way the average angler approaches his sport today.

Dont you bring carp anglers in on this one!

Inovation you say!!

Is hoyking fish on an elasticated landing net pole progress Graham? Good and healthy for the sport? No, so yes im bias against match anglers and those looking to maximize time and their chances of not losing, catch the fish at any cost??

 

[Graham Whatmore]

Why would I waste my time trying to educate you, it would be a bit like hitting my head against a brick wall, another reason is this isn't all about you, you aren't that important it is a thread about the bias against match angling or hadn't you noticed?

 

[The Scarlet Maggot]

Why would I waste my time trying to educate you, it would be a bit like hitting my head against a brick wall, another reason is this isn't all about you, you aren't that important it is a thread about the bias against match angling or hadn't you noticed?

It became peronal "me and you" when you attacked me Graham.

Homogenized and bizarre!! What carp angler worth his salt would use one of these 3m Middy Shock Stick - NEW - The Ultimate!!!! An elasticated carp rod?

---------- Post added at 04:01 ---------- Previous post was at 03:58 ----------

I never proclaimed to be important, did I, just had an opinion.

 

[mcdejer16]

As a former match angler, I find Red Maggots views about match anglers a very uneducated view. What people have to remember, all anglers whether it be match/carp/specimen etc don't start as specialist in their own discipline, everyone starts as anglers that just go for their own enjoyment.

I think people who think all pole fishing or many match fishing techniques are barbaric should try and go fishing with a match angler and ask them about why they fish the methods they do. It is not about 'skulldragging' or whatever Red Maggot called it, it is about bait presentation. If you do not get the bait presentation right you do not catch, that is the same whether it is fishing a waggler, stick, lead, feeder or the pole. For me pole fishing is about finesse with balanced tackle which will get you more bites than fishing a rod and line fishing the same distance.

This season I'm going to be targeting tench using bite alarms, but without the watercraft I learnt from my 15 years+ of matchfishing I can tell will definitely catch less fish!