Clipped up casting

[peter crabtree]

Spill the beans then wanderer...

 

[Chefster]

This question caused a lot of disagreement on another website, i had some serious input but had to admit my original answer was not correct, i thought about it and eventually varied my mathematical calculation and acheived the correct answer. Heres the question, If casting say fifty yards in 10 foot of water, how far do you put your loosefeed away from where your lead lands to ensure its over your hookbait.

how the hell would you get your loosefeed 50 yards??????

 

[barbelboi]

I would assume by loose feed you mean a spod - If so, I'd say the spod would need to hit the water approximately half as much closer as to the depth you're fishing - i.e. the lead will end up at 4' to 5' closer clipped up to where you cast.......

 

[wanderer]

how the hell would you get your loosefeed 50 yards??????

With a spod.

---------- Post added at 23:39 ---------- Previous post was at 23:06 ----------

A marker float cast to a spot, the second one cast to the surface distance of the other and clipped up, it emerged 7 feet away, 2 right angled triangles, i used Pythagorous to calculate and came up originally with 1.9 feet, the interesting bit is the anomaly between pure mathematics and the true distance, i put it down to an averaged line stretch of 7.5 percent and other averages factored in gave me the same answer when he asked me to state it after using the mathematical formula, he didnt expect me to factor in the variables. He later claimed he was using braid, but the guy not being a braid user, why would he experiment with it, wind up in progress, i reckon if he had used braid, the answer would have been much closer to Pythagorus, make your own minds up but it surprised me.

 

[nocturnus anglius]

I cover my hookbait and lead in oil, then cast a Spod/Spomb or catapult at the slick the oil causes, seeing as a spomb will deposit your bait over a wider area, your pretty much covered. Baring in mind I already have the spod/spomb/catapult loaded prior to casting out a rig

 

[wanderer]

Clever move, never thought of that, i suppose the only downside is night fishing at range,

 

[nocturnus anglius]

You can still make it out on a moon lit water, it does become problematic at night, but that's just how it is, please note as well I don't fish big expanses of water, you near enough know if your on the right spot.
I've never clipped up, I've always used my fingers to feather the cast down, and trapped the line as the lead hits the water, the stretch your talking about balances itself out during the cast in flight, I'm guessing the only real hindrance would be a side wind over any kind of distance. Plus take into account, the further your casting the bigger the radius of swing back once your lead hits the water. You'd get more of a swing back the closer you fish, but it's not something I worry about, like I say, there are many other ways to combat problems. I used to use a bright pop up boilie in my pva bags, so it would float to the top, giving a good indication of where my rig was, now I use oil, as it comes off the lead all the way to the lake bed, and continues to give you a good target to cast at.

 

[lutra]

With a spod.

---------- Post added at 23:39 ---------- Previous post was at 23:06 ----------

A marker float cast to a spot, the second one cast to the surface distance of the other and clipped up, it emerged 7 feet away, 2 right angled triangles, i used Pythagorous to calculate and came up originally with 1.9 feet, the interesting bit is the anomaly between pure mathematics and the true distance, i put it down to an averaged line stretch of 7.5 percent and other averages factored in gave me the same answer when he asked me to state it after using the mathematical formula, he didnt expect me to factor in the variables. He later claimed he was using braid, but the guy not being a braid user, why would he experiment with it, wind up in progress, i reckon if he had used braid, the answer would have been much closer to Pythagorus, make your own minds up but it surprised me.

I can't help but to think your trying to workout an almost impossible sum.

If you hold your line tight as your lead or feeder sinks, the pivot point at which the lead or feeder travels back towards you isn't you or your rod tip. Its an arc in the line from the lead to the point on the surface where you line is sinking towards you. I'm sure their must be a whole load of variables that can affect the speed the point on the surface your line is sinking from moves towards you that would need working into any sum.

I think the easiest way to get an answer on the bank would be to measure how much slack line you have after everything has sunk and you have got a tight line without moving the lead from the point it hit the bottom.

You could always cast both lead and spod from a yard or two back from the waters edge but when your lead hits the water step forwards so that it sink under a slack line and more straight down. Unless you like maths that is.

 

[wanderer]

Too much slack line in the loop in the air to prove anything doing that.

 

[Ray Daywalker Clarke]

The only correct way to get your bait on the same spot as your hook bait is via a bait dropper. A bait dropper will sink straight to the bottom, due to its weight, plus the feed inside. Loose feed will drop down slowly, and spread out as it falls to the lake bed

You can spod/spom all day long, but unless you have the correct wind speed, and water drag, your bait will spread all over the swim, and away from your hook bait. You would then have to calculate the speed your bait drops down, if it is falling left or right of your bait due to drag, you would then have to calculate, how far left or right to cast allowing for drag, so your loose feed drops onto and close to your hook bait

A spom hits the water and opens, no different to a spod hitting the water and turning over and emptying.

 

[Philip]

I cover my hookbait and lead in oil, then cast a Spod/Spomb or catapult at the slick the oil causes, seeing as a spomb will deposit your bait over a wider area, your pretty much covered. Baring in mind I already have the spod/spomb/catapult loaded prior to casting out a rig

Thats a good little tip. I have tried the same with pva foam nuggets and pop ups in pva bags to see the exact spot the lead has landed but they can detatch on the way down or get blown out of position pretty fast in any sort of drift. I like the idea of the continual stream of oil to mark the spot. I know it works with oil loaded deadbaits for pike so why not use it to pin point a carp end tackle.

Nice idea. Thanks.

 

[laguna]

Oil slicks and hook baits coated in powdered bait dyes will show on the surface at the point of impact - provided there is no wind or surface movement or drift it should serve as a reasonable marker.

But any current/tow will not show you where it is under water.

 

[nocturnus anglius]

I guess it's all down to personal experience, I just don't think mathematical equations blend very well with a sport that is largely pursued with gut feeling, natural instinct and ability.

 

[laguna]

Agree. Far too many variables to consider, besides which my munga gets thrown all over the place!

 

[laguna]

Whoops! double posted due to server error?

 

[lutra]

Too much slack line in the loop in the air to prove anything doing that.

Yep maybe but that's why feathering down to your clip is so important.

 

[wanderer]

I reckon if you tried the experiment 10 times you would get 10 different results, especially if you did it during different weather conditions, one of the reasons i averaged my calculations to some degree, he only did it once.

 

[lutra]

The only correct way to get your bait on the same spot as your hook bait is via a bait dropper. A bait dropper will sink straight to the bottom, due to its weight, plus the feed inside. Loose feed will drop down slowly, and spread out as it falls to the lake bed

You can spod/spom all day long, but unless you have the correct wind speed, and water drag, your bait will spread all over the swim, and away from your hook bait. You would then have to calculate the speed your bait drops down, if it is falling left or right of your bait due to drag, you would then have to calculate, how far left or right to cast allowing for drag, so your loose feed drops onto and close to your hook bait

A spom hits the water and opens, no different to a spod hitting the water and turning over and emptying.

I agree with your list of problems with feeding into deep water Ray. Never found bait droppers much good at range myself, but taping up all the holes in a feeder and in more resent years, PVA has helped a lot.

---------- Post added at 02:11 ---------- Previous post was at 01:55 ----------

I reckon if you tried the experiment 10 times you would get 10 different results, especially if you did it during different weather conditions, one of the reasons i averaged my calculations to some degree, he only did it once.

I'm sure your right, but if you keep an eye on how much line your having to tighten up each time you cast out, you should get a good idea how much sorter you need your feed to be.

As ray says, not easy to get your loose feed to go straight down.

 

[tigger]

I cast out as near to the exact spot where I want to fish and let the feeder/weight take as much line as it needs to hit bottom. I then pop my rod in the rests, put on my a back lead (if i'm using one) and tighten up to the feeder/weight and then clip up. When I cast next the feeder/weight will fall in roughly the same spot each cast

 

[Ray Daywalker Clarke]

I agree with your list of problems with feeding into deep water Ray. Never found bait droppers much good at range myself, but taping up all the holes in a feeder and in more resent years, PVA has helped a lot.

As ray says, not easy to get your loose feed to go straight down.

I can let you into an idea i saw being used on the Trent 30 odd years ago, long before spods. Then the lads used old fairy liquid bottles with the ends cut off.

Take an old spod and cut the closed end off, add some lead along the side like a feeder. You have a feeder with flights. Add your mix and plug the ends with ground bait.

Cast to your spot and the spod will sink, once it has hit the bottom allow it to lay for a few seconds, tighten up, and a couple of tugs will release any mix left in the Speeder , thats a spod and feeder. I thought i would name it, before someone at Korda claims they made and named it first.

At the end of the day, it's down to how each angler likes to fish, and how they get the feed to the spot they are fishing.

If anyone every found the perfect bait etc etc, or sport would be very very boring.