cracking bag of barbel!

[Dicky (Angling Trust PAC)]

So, back on thread
Barbel do not thrive in still water as they do not reproduce.
Some maybe able to prove that some barbel don't reproduce in some rivers,but no evidence has been produced to add to any claim barbel breed in stillwater.
We appear to be stuck also on the argument of defining indigenous.

Hi Fred,

Thought I'd tip my toe into the debate... be gentle!

Isn't it more accurate to say that barbel do not reproduce in all stillwaters?

What about Heronbrook? Even Steve appeared at the time to concede that barbel had successfully bred there?

See HERE

As for 'indigenous', the OED says '(esp. of flora and fauna) originating naturally in a region'...

So from a barbel point of view that can only mean the easterly rivers where they actually occur naturally, and must therefore exclude all rivers where they have be un-naturally stocked by man.

Remember that political geography does not enter into the definition, so they are not indigenous to England, they are indigenous very specifically to a small number of rivers in eastern England.

 

[Judas Priest]

As for childless couples, there are many about within this environment who can reproduce, that overcomes the relatively few who can't.
As with in all nature,( except stillwater barbel stocks) there are ways to overcome!
In my case I have 6 nephews and nieces some of whom, so far, have produced a total of QUOTE]

Fred

Once again bluster and more bluster and a totally ridiculous reply.

You made/make the statement on a regular basis mate without any real thought or knowledge into what you're saying.
Back up your statement that to thrive means to breed succesfully or leave the thread to those who put thought into life rather than following the mantra ?

---------- Post added at 13:26 ---------- Previous post was at 13:12 ----------

One of the big benefits of belonging to the Barbel Society is we all have the ability to have our own opinions/views.
QUOTE]

I have that "big benefit" also Fred WITHOUT belonging to any group fishing or otherwise.

Surely though as COMMUNICATION PANEL CHAIRMAN for that group you carry the responsability of position to put forward the party line, or are you saying that you don't believe it ?

If not then it's a bit like a Gerald Ratner moment !

 

[Ray Wood 1]

No blinkers for me Fred, I am not surprised you come back with the one liners when you clearly have no answers or substance to your argument.

It is clear in black and white on the BS website that the BS have accepted that neither moral or ethical reasons can be used in the argument against stocking barbel into still waters. So it must logically follow that as the organisation who claim to be against it do the work to stop it. In fact I say the BS is both morally and ethically obliged to do so, how else can the BS be taken seriously if it does not?

Perhaps you can explain how the BS is still opposed to stocking barbel into still waters, but accepts that the Agency can only use clear scientific evidence, rather than including moral/ethical reasons, when formulating policy.

If someone is against something they are against it full stop . I noted your edit Fred, would it would not be fairer to say the BS had conceded it had no argument other than moral or ethical ones and had to accept that in reality the BS had no scientific to present to the EA to have the practice stopped?

Mr Wood!!!

 

[Fred Bonney]

Phil, I'll leave your reaction for others to take in and perhaps see what I am up against!

If "animals" don't breed, they don't survive and therefore q.e.d[/I] don't thrive!

Simples even for your mind I should think.


I'll have a look ****y, and you don't need to worry, it's those with motives that I will argue against, sometimes for the fun of the wind up, if that gets my ol' friends at FM audience boost as the worms and their followers come out, so be it.

Mr Wood, nothing to add i suggest you read the website again once again without your blinkers.

 

[Ray Wood 1]

Read it all, and you piont is? Oh I know you have no answers, what you are up against is individuals who can debate with logical minds.

Mr Wood

 

[Fred Bonney]

I know what I'm up against and it isn't that!
It's usually individual people who have an argument and are unable to accept others arguments.

As I have said many times my views are not necessarily the views of the Barbel Society.When I giving the Barbel Society view it is made perfectly clear.



Scooted past the 6000 I see:wh

ADDED

My job description by the way doesn't insist I follow a party line in my private life.

 

[Simon K]

what you are up against is individuals who can debate with logical minds.

Mr Wood

Verb
thrive (third-person singular simple present thrives, present participle thriving, simple past throve or thrived, past participle thriven or thrived)
To grow or increase in bulk or stature; to grow vigorously or luxuriantly, to flourish.

To increase in wealth or success; to prosper, be profitable.


Logic, Mr Priest, Mr ****y, Mr Wood and all, don't enter into it.

What kind of debate can you have with those ignorant on a subject, let alone misguided understanding of the words they casually throw in?
The only thing they want is the last word, so let them claim a pyrrhic victory.

Leave them barking at the moon and quietly slip away. :w

 

[Fred Bonney]

****y I searched the fishery website and found only one mention, a photo, of a barbel in 2007.
Are they still in there?

 

[Poshpaul (Angling Trust and PaSC)]

I would refer you all to the vituperative debate between A.J.P.Taylor and Hugh Trevor Roper over selective quoting! It's been the bane of many a History undergraduates first term for decades!

It's not just the quoting ; it's then the interpretation. As both the OED and the Cambridge English Dictionary offer 'success' as an alternative definition of the word "thrive" it can be inferred that success is not an essential element of thriving!

Now if you wish to debate inferrence we'll move on to Popper!

Me, I'll join you Simon with a glass of :w..we'll watch the angels dance on the head of a pin and I'll celebrate finding a natural cure to my recent insomnia.

 

[Fred Bonney]

v.intr.

To grow well or luxuriantly; thrive: The crops flourished in the rich soil.
To do or fare well; prosper: "No village on the railroad failed to flourish" (John Kenneth Galbraith).
To be in a period of highest productivity, excellence, or influence:


We can all do that Simon, another case of arguing only part of a subject ?

 

[Judas Priest]

Phil, I'll leave your reaction for others to take in and perhaps see what I am up against!

QUOTE]

The majority of the time Fred you are up against yourself with your ridiculous post, inability to answer straight questions and total inability to back up your rhetoric and provide any depth to your postings.

Nothing wrong with my mind either Fred just the ability to discuss matters logically and reasonably.

I, like you have done for others, have looked back through your history on this site and have found that the vast majority of your posts are one line digs at others, silly remarks, and claims with absolutely no substance when challenged. Nothing discussed in depth, nothing technical and nothing historic. You then blame everyone else for your short comings and claim you're being victimised, it really is pathetic.

Perhaps the "logic" is to turn this site into the likes of another you "belong" to and only talk about Strictly come dancing, the Apprentice and aging rock stars on tour or for individuals to use to sell their wares.

As Simon says "What kind of debate can you have with those ignorant on a subject,".

So, it's as many a member of a single species group you are on the committee of, and has done since you started the same stupidity on their forum, has said "it's tara from me".

 

[Rich Frampton]

""""Perhaps the "logic" is to turn this site into the likes of another you "belong" to and only talk about Strictly come dancing, the Apprentice and aging rock stars on tour or for individuals to use to sell their wares.""""

The same site that is doing a fantastic job at raising money for the Research and Conservation and the great work being guided by Pete Reading.
R&C auction is going great guns!!! Another big night tonight with lots for 2 to attend a Man Utd game in Knights Lounge hospitality,a day on the Hants Avon with Pete Reading,a day with Phil Smith after Roach,a day with FM's Ian Welch,a day for 2 on a private stretch of the Test courtesy of Dave Steuart and many others.
If you would like to bid then take a look at the auction page and get in touch with either Fred or myself.....or anyone else you know who is BS member.

Thanks for giving me the opportunity of promoting it Phil. Hope you are able to contribute to the work by making a bid.

Rich.

 

[Fred Bonney]

I hope that is a promise Phil, because frankly in my opinion you added nothing to FM and to have looked at all my 11000 odd posts to pick out one or two digs at people of similar persuasion to you to back up an argument, say's it all.


What you don't seem to appreciate, and what had peoples perception of what the BS stood for put back many years, was the likes of you and your kind.
We now have a thriving membership who are happy to support and join in, even the putting of a question asking of what rod reel or keepnet no longer attracts the nasties of not too long ago.

That's now left to the poor souls on their personal blogs and maybe a forum with a few mates as followers giving encouragement to eachother.

 

[cg74]

So, back on thread
Barbel do not thrive in still water as they do not reproduce.
Some maybe able to prove that some barbel don't reproduce in some rivers,but no evidence has been produced to add to any claim barbel breed in stillwater.
We appear to be stuck also on the argument of defining indigenous.

Prove it, go on Fred you prove with quantifiable evidence that barbel are not capable of breeding success in stillwater, I keenly await definitive proof and if you have none, please stop bleating.

"Thrive" read here, as this is where our language is set: definition of thrive from Oxford Dictionaries
You'll notice, breeding success is not mentioned; "grow or develop well or vigorously" Both of which can be achieved in a stillwater, or not?

And like I accepted, yes it is basically unprovable that barbel have directly affected the biomass of a rivers indigenous fish species but then has it ever been proven that smoking causes cancer?
Excluding a complete moron, who would deny that link?

It's more about balanced minds making logical deductions, which definitely counts a few out and I ain't one of the latter...

 

[Poshpaul (Angling Trust and PaSC)]

cg...am assuming the use of the word moron is referring exclusively to the smoking/cancer link ......the editorial folk are very keen to not stifle these healthy and continuing debates...and we mods. act in that very specific context...just be careful with the odd more extreme term such as moron.....members with relative/friends who have physical and mental health challenges to face can find such terms upsetting.

Thanks to all

and before anybody pops up a use of such a specific term we have missed..sorry we try and read every single posting but we do miss some things. As for taking lumps out of each other generally...well as long as you abide by the t&c's...Chopper Harris away (now that does date me!).

 

[cg74]

I hope that is a promise Phil, because frankly in my opinion you added nothing to FM and to have looked at all my 11000 odd posts to pick out one or two digs at people of similar persuasion to you to back up an argument, say's it all.


What you don't seem to appreciate, and what had peoples perception of what the BS stood for put back many years, was the likes of you and your kind.
We now have a thriving membership who are happy to support and join in, even the putting of a question asking of what rod reel or keepnet no longer attracts the nasties of not too long ago.

That's now left to the poor souls on their personal blogs and maybe a forum with a few mates as followers giving encouragement to eachother.

I take it ALL your members have been successful in procreation?

 

[Poshpaul (Angling Trust and PaSC)]

I take it ALL your members have been successful in procreation?

Now common cg, keep up, we've already established that thrive only implies success mg:

 

[cg74]

cg...am assuming the use of the word moron is referring exclusively to the smoking/cancer link ......the editorial folk are very keen to not stifle these healthy and continuing debates...and we mods. act in that very specific context...just be careful with the odd more extreme term such as moron.....members with relative/friends who have physical and mental health challenges to face can find such terms upsetting.

Thanks to all

and before anybody pops up a use of such a specific term we have missed..sorry we try and read every single posting but we do miss some things. As for taking lumps out of each other generally...well as long as you abide by the t&c's...Chopper Harris away (now that does date me!).

Why of course...

---------- Post added at 08:43 ---------- Previous post was at 08:41 ----------

Now common cg, keep up, we've already established that thrive only implies success mg:

soz, i is a bit slow, loike

 

[Simon K]

Now common cg, keep up, we've already established that thrive only implies success mg:

Slightly unfair freudian slip, Paul?


We are certainly seeing some good examples of Orwellian "newspeak" on this thread.

Language is (d)evolving even as we type.

Ingsoc is alive and kicking and we Winston Smith-alikes are on a hiding to nothing, I fear.

All hail B.S.
Sorry, I meant F.B.
Doubly sorry, I really meant B.B.

Can I fill your glass, Paul? :w

 

[Lord Paul of Sheffield]

Hi All

Just popped in to see how this thread was going and to remind you to leave a mince pie, glass of sherry and a custard cream or jammy dodger for Santa

don't leave him a hobnob - they are too crumbly and he nearly chocked on on 2 years ago