Death Rigs

[Wolfman Woody]

Now I'll put my other argument in as it will go on a fresh thread page.

For the sake of argument only - let's accept that Jason and co. have won the debate. Therefore any rig/method that involves static immoveable weighty objects on the line that any small fish can't itself pull off should be banned.

IN THAT CASE WE SHOULD BAN MOST FLOAT FISHING!

Well, after all, most floats (wagglers in particular) are TRAPPED on the line with two largish shots at least and soem of them will take ?oz of shot or more to cock them. If the mainline breaks above the float you have a TETHER or DEATH RIG!

The only difference being that the fish has to drag something around on the surface rather than on the bottom, but inevitably, the result could be the same.

 

[Andrew Greensmith]

I agree with you woody, as i mentioned in my tread, i think it safer to have a fixed lead than have a hooklink thats stronger than the main line, however for my personal fishing i'd use both a thinner hook link and a non fixed lead. Best of both worlds.

You're right with regards to float fishing, everyone agree's its fine as the hooklink is much weaker however few people seem to put this thought into ledgering.

 

[Wolfman Woody]

And there are many who fish float tackle "straight through"!

 

[swordsy]

Yes some carp/match pole rigs in which a bait is set as close as is possible to snags, reeds, lillies and the likes are quite deadly.

commercial snake pools where anglers compete to get in the rat holes can encourage dangerous practice.

in this situation I use an elastic the equivilant of a 40 so that no fish can tear into the reeds, even a double would struggle to get a foot of elastic out.

brutal

 

[Bill Maitland]

No Gary, it doesn't make it right, I was just pointing out that that most rigs present a danger to smaller species than intended, if they get broken off.
I was basing what I said mainly on line strentgh in mind and not type of rig used.

 

[Bill Maitland]

Gary, if my 6lb 2 swan shot paternoster chub rig accidentally got broken off and was picked up by a decent roach or dace it could get tetherd, even though my weak link is only 2 or 3lbs
Does that mean we all should use only running rigs ?
That was the point I'm making.

 

[Phil Hackett 2]

Two further points on Graham?s and Jeff?s comments.
In the C of C the NAA/SAA recognise there are safe loop rigs, and the code carries examples of these.

Likewise the C of C recognises that float rigs can also be tether rigs and recommends and illustrates safer methods of how they should be made up.

The Code for those who have never seen or read it??.shame on you!??can be viewed at http://www.saauk.org and follow the links on the site to the code.

On a personal note, I never use float, feeder or lead rigs straight through. I always use at least a 2 lbs buffer between the mainline and hook link. Rarely do I ever use any feeder or lead rig with a fixed link. Most of the time it?s a direct running link on the mainline that comes off if the mainline brakes.

And there are few people on here that fish as snag-ridden waters as I do on a regular and often basis.

 

[Andy "the Dog" Nellist]

Jason you said:

"in your F= Ma argument andy you are relying on the fish being able to accelerate at 9.80665 meters per second per second. if this is not the case then a fish of greater than the breaking strain of the line would also be tethered as it would not be able to exert the same force as gravity on it's own mass in air.

as you will agree the breaking strain takes into account the affects of gravity which is an acceleration of 9.80665 meters per second per second."

ER NO !! The fish is not trying to break free of the earths gravitational force just break a hooklink.

In F=ma a = the change in velocity over time and thus the equation can also be expressed as:

F = m * (v1 - v0) / (t1 - t0)

For the force to be equal to the weight of the fish it would require an acceleration of 1 ms2.

Pike have been recorded accelerating at 80 ms2 with a maximum speed of 2.86ms.

Carp have been recorded accelerating at 22 ms2 with a maximum speed of 1.68 ms.

 

[Wolfman Woody]

It's a bit of a bugger if you have to work it all out on paper first though, Andy.

Your points are taken Phil, but as I said in the article, define if you can a 100% safe rig. There isn't one so the best we can do is mitigate the risks using our knowledge, experiences and our abilities to choose the best methods to suit our fishing. So long as the individual is happy he isn't causing any undue harm to the fish, then that's where it should end.

 

[Baz]

I agree Andy. (o

 

[jason fisher]

ER NO !! The fish is not trying to break free of the earths gravitational force just break a hooklink.

which proves you have no idea what the rating on a line actually means andy.



you are bandying around very simple mathematical formulae, and do not understand the pricipals underpinning them or how they apply to the real world.

i suggest you go away read some books on youngs modulus and testing, then come back when you know what you're talking about. by that time you will know that i am actually correct but i can't be bothered to take the time explaining it.

 

[jason fisher]

For the force to be equal to the weight of the fish it would require an acceleration of 1 ms2. WRONG ABSOLUTELY WRONG

DEFINITION OF A NEWTON GO ASK JEEVES AND READ IT MAYBE YOU WILL LEARN LOTS.

 

[swordsy]

With a mainline of 10lb krystonite and a hooklength of 20lb fox braid any bugger that gets snagged up on that better have a rocket up its arse, because it will need help reaching the required acceleration.

WHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSHHHHHHHH!!!!!!BANG!!!

"Kickles farm we have a problem!!"

 

[jason fisher]

a 10 lb fish would have to hit just under 10ms-2.
a 5 lb 20ms-2

and a 1lb 100ms-2

 

[Bill Maitland]

Much less mathematically put Swordsy, but I can see your point !!

 

[jason fisher]

the important thig being that the fish will swim away as fast as it can then find out it can't break the line be tethered and die.

 

[swordsy]

I dont use loop rigs or tether rigs as they do not really suit my type of fishing and my clips are adapted with a scalpel to release early, the breaking of any strain of line is of course directly related to the fish swimming against a solid and fixed point to achieve the correct mathmatical formulae to ensure its release from the tether. the critical point being fixed and solid unfortunatly the snag is most likley to be anything other than solid and so would negate the aceleration formulae with the action of a bungee cord........boing!not bang!

 

[jason fisher]

acceleration required would be increased if it absorbed any of the energy but then again we're discounting the affects of knots weakening the line as well. mainly because you can't quantify them.

 

[matt thomas]

and the ultimate moral is; stop fishing.
so stop giving antis more ammunition to fire and as jerry springer says"look after yourself and each fish"




lol

 

[swordsy]

well said geezer!