Death Rigs

[matt thomas]

eyup swordsy,it just tickles me that it becomes handbags at dawn about a subject that we all try and minimise because we do actually care about fish,we are in effect just like birdwatchers but we have to catch them to look at them.

i would say that everyone on this website has fish welfare at the front of their mind when fishing,unfortunately the odd problem happens and if you keep getting snagged then dont cast in there or use suitable tackle to stand a chance but then your bullying fish and the results can have just as bad consequences with damaged mouths etc


common sense always should prevail

so put the maths away cos were thick or go on mathemagic lol

 

[Nigel Connor(ACA ,SAA)]

A point not made is that the problem presumably only arises when the weight/feeder snags.

I suspect a lot of times it is the hook itself that gets pulled into a snag & there is therefore no possibilty of a fish taking a baited hook & tethering itself.

My view is that there is no such thing as an unsafe rig only its use in unsafe circumstances.

I use a fixed paternoster for my winter roaching.I fish snag free areas and have never left either a baited hook in the water or a fish afrer a snap off.If I did snag up the 2lb or less bottom would break easily & the weight would be retreived.If the weight snagged, because I use swan shot lightly pinched on they would pull off under minimal pressure.

The question therfore is one of educating anglers to use rigs approriate to the conditons/peg.

 

[Bill Maitland]

Well said Matt and Nigel.

 

[Wolfman Woody]

'ere,'ere Nigel.

 

[Graham Whatmore]

That should do it then Nigel, plain and simple common sense, probably what most of us use when we're not on the computer.

 

[Murray Rogers]

I have been out in the boat to recover Carp which have been 'tethered', NOT NICE.

One was dead, the other was not far off it, it's mouth had actually gone black, both fish were caught around tree stumps attached by a very strong hook link which was then attached to an even stronger swivell, and that was not going to be broken by the fish.

So what I'm trying to say is that fish do get tethered, but in my opinion its not the fault of the rig as such, but more in how and when it is applied by an angler!!!! Assuming of course that the angler knows what he is doing.

Whats wrong with a two hook rig for Bream, Roach, Perch, or indeed some match fishing???????

In the right hands, probably not a lot.
In the wrong hands, plenty.

 

[GrahamM]

I'm not claiming that what I'm about to say justifies, or not, the use of more than one hook, but........

Let's not forget that trout anglers, including those on a catch and release ticket, use a point fly and one or two flies on droppers, every day.

And nobody bats an eyelid at it.

Doesn't it matter because they're trout?

Pike anglers, as standard, use two treble hooks on a trace. If the pike is hooked on one treble only (it happens quite often) leaving the second treble hanging free, there's not a lot of difference in that and any multi-hook rig. None, in fact, as far as the result is concerned if that loose treble was to snag.

Doesn't it matter because they're pike? Or does the nature of bait fishing for pike justify the use of two hooks, and treble hooks at that?

Which all leads me to believe we should look at the bigger picture before condemning certain rigs; there are a lot more potential 'death rigs' out there than the obvious ones.

Enough to make you paranoid isn't it, if you've got a fixation for such things.

An educated, caring angler, will rarely, if ever, be responsible for a tethered fish. And if he's not educated then that should be addressed and the rig banned ONLY if it's a liabilty even in educated hands.

If he's uncaring it won't matter what rig he uses, he'll always be a liability.

 

[Wolfman Woody]

I don't wish to broaden this out although that's the way it looks to be going. I took my step-grandson on a lake today (kind courtesy of Stuart and Stephen Heard - Thanks) and broke two of the rules applied by the club who has the licence to fish it.

Oooooo! Yes, but in the close season they can't fish it, just the syndicate/owner members and guests so the normal rules don't apply. The two rules being - No boilies -&- No braid.

Well, truth is we got desperate to catch him a fish in the end and resorted to a bolt rig with a boily. It was hardly a full 'bolt rig' as I didn't match the swivel up to the lead clip and so was more free running.

The reasons for these rules is (I guess) boilies are bad for carp and people use too many of them (utter boilies) and the braid cuts their mouths (utter cobblers).

He caught 8 fish in total and all ON THE SAME BOILY with no loose ones thrown in. Each and every fish was hooked in the front of the lip and no cutting had occured due to the braid since the hook was against the lip and not the line. It just shows how misguided some people are when they make up these rules.

Full story in time.

 

[Graham Whatmore]

I totally agree with both of the above sentiments. I think a lot of these silly rules are brought in as a result of misinformation, misguided thinking or, even worse, no thinking at all.

You will never legislate for the angler who doesn't give a toss for the fish no matter what rules you make.

The caring fisherman doesn't really need rules at all, he makes his own judgements. Most river anglers in particular fish miles from any supervision but they still abide by the 'fish safety comes first' rules.

 

[Bob Roberts]

As an angler who has fished the Trent for more than 40 years I can no longer condone the use of loop rigs whatever breaking strain lies are used.

I have lined the pockets of tackle dealers and feeder manufacturers for years with the number of feeders I've lost in snags. These feeders get caught up on the retrieve as well as when a fish is hooked and the line frequently breaks above the rig despite lower breaking strain hook links.

They are a menace on rivers like the Trent and many others, I suspect. What bothers me is that those who are clever enough to calculate coefficients and quote Einstein prefer to remain ignorant of the bleeding obvious.

It is not my responsibility to tell you not to use a rig that has the potential to tether a fish. That is down to your own consience.

It is my responsibility not to promote such rigs to those who may be influenced or encouraged by what I write.

What I find hard to swallow is that some anglers get hot and bothered about insignificant issues like keepnets and unhooking mats but will risk tethering a fish by using a potentially dangerous rig.

I suggest you have already justified these actions to yourself so go ahead and fish on your own terms, but please, please, don't try and influence others to follow your lead.

Mumbo jumbo science and hocus pocus won't wash with me. I have much experience in the matter and I have come to the conclusion that loop rigs have no place in my fishing repertoire today.

 

[Bill Maitland]

Bob, some good comments there, what is your opinion on lead safty clips or inline leads.
I have never used the loop rig but do use the above rigs mentioned, are you saying that you always use a running rig in all your fishing and would not use even a paternoster.

 

[Bob Roberts]

I use them in my carp fishing where appropriate but the simple criteria is that the clip/ in-line rubber grip must release the swivel easily. I check this by picking up the hook and giving it a shake - the swivel should be released instantly.

Anglers sem to think that a firm grip is required to create a bolt rig effect which is patently not true in practise providing your hook is sharp.

For 90% of my legering these days I use nothing more sophisticated than a simple running rig and I'm seeing no downturn in my catches as a result, particularly where barbel are concerned.

I would not decry a fixed paternoster outright as there are circumstances in which it is relatively safe to employ one. I simply ask myself whether it offers significant advantages over a running paternoster and I'm struggle to identify an example of this.

Can you?

 

[Nigel Connor(ACA ,SAA)]

Bob,

Nice to see you sitting on the fence on this one

The fixed paternoster is a very simple rig & as such has good antitangle propoerties.

I use it for close range river roaching where I may be using a paternoster of 3 to 4 inches in length.I have found that using a swivel there are more tangles than with a fixed link.Where absolute tip top presentation for big roach is key this doesn't give me much confidence.

I share your view that even a running weight creates enough resistance to promote a bolt effect.

 

[Bob Roberts]

I think the light line/ small hook/ close range roach scenario is a million miles away from the in-line/ lead clip/ heavy nylon/ braid link/ boilie scenario that this discussion has wandered off into.

Like I said, I would not decry a fixed paternoster outright as there are circumstances in which it is relatively safe to employ one. This is a good example.

I still feel the feeder running within a closed loop constitutes bad angling practise. The arguments put forward in its defence thus far would equally apply to using a fixed lead/ elasticated method feeder for specimen carp because the hook link is lighter than the main line.

I've seen a thousand casting crack-offs in my time and not one broke on the hook link. Every single one was on the reel side of the lead/ feeder, each one creating a potential tethering situation.

 

[Wolfman Woody]

WRONG BOB! (not the wrong Bob, but that you're wrong Bob, in my opinion)

I speak as I find and other than boats slicing my line or tangling the feeder around their propellers, I do not lose any feeders whilst using the closed loop method. I you have then Heaven knows what you're doing wrong.

That said, I DO NOT APPROVE (as Mr Marsden will confirm) the use of the method feeders with the elastic attached. The hooklength might well snap before the mainline, but because of the stretchy buffer between them I could not guarantee it. Therefore I would not use it.

Same with using the closed loop system with a braid mainline and feeder gum between that and the hooklink, which is not quite the same, but I wouldn't risk it anyway.

 

[Bill Maitland]

As far as I'm concerned any semi fixed rig has the potential to tether a smaller fish if broken off, no matter how well it is set up, so does the loop rig or a paternoster.

So, do we all just use a running rig ? I don't think thats gonna happen is it.

It all comes back to common sense and the individuals own conscience and confidence in the rigs/set up that they are using.

 

[matt thomas]

just going off track here but have you ever wondered how much terminal tackle is actually on the bottom of some of our rivers especially those pressured weirpools on the trent and the like?,it must be littered with feeders and leads,the fish should be used to them because they must swim by thousands

caught a rod last year on opening day with reel and line and 5lb barbel !!
pity it was cheap crap :-(

 

[matt thomas]

oh and it was alive thank god and no worse for wear

 

[swordsy]

There is enough lead on the bottom of the Trent to re-roof the cathedrals in every city in the country! enough nylon to make tights for every woman in the country and enough plastic to make 20000 robin reliants!

:O)

 

[matt thomas]

im taking my tench rake next time and a tow rope ,gonna cast it on a boat rod and see what i get. lol