I have heard the same theory applied to the close season over many years and thats is exactly why people do not discuss that old chestnut anymore. Come back when you have your absolute proof.
Do Fish Feel Pain?
- Thread starter FishingMagic
- Start date
I have heard the same theory applied to the close season over many years and thats is exactly why people do not discuss that old chestnut anymore. Come back when you have your absolute proof.
bennygesserit
Well-known member
But if fish feel no pain because the required parts of their brain are not there then cutting them up into little bits when they are alive will cause no pain , do you think it would ? According to the James research then it should cause a fish no pain.
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Tinker , Fred if you are not interested in the discussion why bother telling us ?
Just letting you know it's gone on too long and is now just a pointless joust!
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Wanna bet
---------- Post added at 12:54 ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 ----------
Wanna bet
bennygesserit
Well-known member
What because you and Tinker say so ? Does that work on other threads as well ? Like .... hmmmm... I dunno .... barbel ones ?
cg74
Well-known member
Did you really need to ask. It's because they have nothing worth adding to the debate, and their thoughts aren't coming over on top.
Really ? ...so could you do me a favor and show Mr Woodhouse how it works as he has managed to cram reference to me into literally every post he has made SINCE he started to apparently ignore me.
Honestly ...please do it ...no prob for me WHATSOEVER !
My guess is he knows exactly what you are going to write without reading it
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Of course it does but, when was the last one of those ?
richiekelly
Well-known member
I have already said I don't know and its not the same as hooking a fish.
will you please explain how any angler that belives fish feel pain can morally continue to fish.
do you really belive that fish are on the edge of consciousness ?
I know I have asked these things before but I haven't seen an answer.
It is not a case of being disinterested you are doing angling as a whole no favours Benny put angling first not your ego.
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chav professor
Well-known member
Can we have a poll please Fishingmagic..... no bull.... no debate..... 'Do fish have the brain for pain'. Yes or No!
geoffmaynard
Content Editor
My take. Forget the pain bit for now.
This planet revolves around one life form destroying another, even inadvertently. Walk down the street and you step on ants, killing some and leaving others severely damaged. Breathe in and 100s of 1000s of tiny life forms die with every breath...
The whole argument should be about where you draw the bottom line; which creatures matter enough to get hot and bothered about and which don't. Personally I draw the line at mammals. I care enough about my dog for example, enough to want to ensure he isn't suffering, wether this involves 'pain' or not. I don't care about insects all and don't care that much about birds, reptiles and fish. I have eaten all of the above! Everyone has their line in the sand - draw yours where you want to but don't try gaining any high moral ground over others who set their line higher up.
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This planet revolves around one life form destroying another, even inadvertently. Walk down the street and you step on ants, killing some and leaving others severely damaged. Breathe in and 100s of 1000s of tiny life forms die with every breath...
The whole argument should be about where you draw the bottom line; which creatures matter enough to get hot and bothered about and which don't. Personally I draw the line at mammals. I care enough about my dog for example, enough to want to ensure he isn't suffering, wether this involves 'pain' or not. I don't care about insects all and don't care that much about birds, reptiles and fish. I have eaten all of the above! Everyone has their line in the sand - draw yours where you want to but don't try gaining any high moral ground over others who set their line higher up.
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Democracy for a subject like this is BS Chav. It's too subjective
I like this allot and its quite similar to my stance on things. Fact is I don’t care THAT much about fish. I am ok with the fact that I do cause them some suffering but I offset this with the view that anglers benefit fish more than hinder them. In my opinion if anyone cares THAT much about fish you would not be fishing.
It appears allot of people on here want their cake and eat it....on one hand they want to stick hooks in fish and drag them from the water ...but on the other prentend they "care" by somehow trying to show it causes them no harm.
Sorry to me thats a totally BS cop out. If you REALLY cared you would not leave anything to doubt ...you would give up fishing TODAY.
Have you been taking lessons from you friends [sticking hooks in fish and drag them from the water] your getting a bit emotive .
sam vimes
Well-known member
I suspect that you've got the wrong impression of my stance if that's what you think. I'm not a million miles from that stance myself. I don't go in for the excessive "caring" that many anglers bang on about. I think that much of it is little more than another way of selling tackle. You just have to look at the increasingly sophisticated and expensive fish care products that appear year on year. The outrage a picture of a fish causes if there's no matt the size of a pool table. It's little more than an "I care" arms race. I quite agree that if anglers really do care about fish quite as much as they suggest, they probably wouldn't be fishing.
However, where I differ is that I can't justify what I do based on the greater good theory that you use. I can't brush the prospect of causing real pain to each and every fish I hook under the same carpet you choose to. You talk of others wanting their cake and eat it. Using how much they care as a sop to the masses they hope to appease. I struggle to see how your "greater good" concept is any different. In fact I find it harder to reconcile the acceptance of causing pain because of it.
Sure I get it …you can’t justify causing “pain”
…I can.
So we differ and frankly its your problem not mine so no need to tell me a 6th time…
sam vimes
Well-known member
That would be fine and dandy if you didn't justify your stance by rubbishing the alternative. You've castigated it as just being nothing more than a sop to appease non-anglers. How do you explain your justification being any different? In fact, why do you feel the need to justify yourself to non-anglers (or anyone else for that matter) at all?
The bottom line is that we really only have to justify our actions to ourselves. You do that your way, I'll do it mine.
That would be fine and dandy if you didn't justify your stance by rubbishing the alternative. You've castigated it as just being nothing more than a sop to appease non-anglers. How do you explain your justification being any different? In fact, why do you feel the need to justify yourself to non-anglers (or anyone else for that matter) at all?
The bottom line is that we really only have to justify our actions to ourselves. You do that your way, I'll do it mine.
Errr you appear to have spent a fair amount of time rubbishing my stance.
Look ...I really dont care what your stance is to be honest...you do this quite allot ...you come on a thread and say ...I dont care what people think and I only need to justify things to myself.
If thats the case then why the heck even take part in the debate ? ..just carry on ! ...do whatever you like ! ...I really dont think there is THAT many people who really honestly care what Sam Vimes does each day...so just do it ! ...sod everyone else and get out there and enjoy it ...you got your beliefs...good luck to you !
So as you so nicely put it ...you do that your way...and I'll do it mine
sam vimes
Well-known member
Errr you appear to have spent a fair amount of time rubbishing my stance.
Look ...I really dont care what your stance is to be honest...you do this quite allot ...you come on a thread and say ...I dont care what people think and I only need to justify things to myself.
If thats the case then why the heck even take part in the debate ? ..just carry on ! ...do whatever you like ! ...I really dont think there is THAT many people who really honestly care what Sam Vimes does each day...so just do it ! ...sod everyone else and get out there and enjouy it ...you got your beliefs...good luck to you !
SO as you so nicely put it ...you do that your way...and I'll do it mine
Nope, there's quite a bit I do agree with you. I'm not rubbishing your stance, I just don't understand it and don't see the logic. I also feel that it's less defensible than the "no pain" stance.
However, the idea that I want people to care what I think is laughable. I genuinely don't care if anyone agrees with me. If they do, so be it. If they don't, so be it. Either way, it doesn't make any difference. However, that doesn't mean that I can't enter into a discussion.
I'd be astounded, and a little bit disturbed, if anybody actually cared one jot about what I do each day.
Jeff Woodhouse
Moaning Marlow Meldrew
Sometimes Sam, even you and I can agree.
"I care not what others think of what I do, but I care very much about what I think of what I do! That is character!" - Theodore Roosevelt.
And him too.
bennygesserit
Well-known member
I think fish can feel pain , i don't think routine catch and release causes a massive amount of pain , but that is just my guess , as fish are a lower order animal that causes me no moral dilemma. i have never live baited , and I have no problem with those that do, but I think I would probably fel too sorry for the prey fish.
if fishing were catching fish then leaving them to die slowly on the bank in what I thought was a massive and elongated amount of pain I would probably stop angling.
What I am trying to explain is the question was do fish feel pain , any pain , and so I would have to answer yes , in the strictest sense, if the question was is hooking a dog the same as hooking a fish then no , of course , I don't think it is.
Fish can feel pain and remember it , which is why some are difficult to catch.
Fish on the edge of conciousness - I mean't if on a scale an amoeba was 1 and a person 100 then a fish ould be a 10 maybe a dog 70 , a chimp 90 and a canoeist - 89
just kidding.this one word to me proves you are not an angler, the rest of your posts show you dont give a flying one about US anglers. i really wonder why anyone replies to you tbh