D
David Will
Guest
On the other hand if we get the old better quality higher price flannel I wonder what the bird fanciers would think about second class feed for their prize Budgies .
R
Rodney Wrestt
Guest
Apparently the price of trout pellets is about to shoot up as Trouw who supply many of the tackle trade outlets and shops are putting the price up from ?15.80 up to ?20 per sack.
C
Carp Angler
Guest
If your shop are paying ?15.80 then they're either lying to you or are being ripped off.
GrahamM
Managing Editor
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I spoke to Simon King, Haith's director, this morning, and asked him for an explanation.
The main point is that prices are currently being updated on the website and while some have been updated on Supercatch they haven't on the bird section, and vice-versa.
For instance, on the bird section Prosecto is ?35.36, on Supercatch it's ?30.16. PTX on birds is ?28.08, on fish it's ?25.00.
Robin Red is ?4.80 on both sections.
Red Factor is the same on both sections.
Superhemp on fish is ?36.40, on birds it's not listed. Plain hemp is listed on both at ?25.00.
There are two classes of VAT, if it's being sold for fishing it attracts 17.5%. If it's being sold as plain feed for pheasants, etc, it is VAT exempt.
The main point is that prices are currently being updated on the website and while some have been updated on Supercatch they haven't on the bird section, and vice-versa.
For instance, on the bird section Prosecto is ?35.36, on Supercatch it's ?30.16. PTX on birds is ?28.08, on fish it's ?25.00.
Robin Red is ?4.80 on both sections.
Red Factor is the same on both sections.
Superhemp on fish is ?36.40, on birds it's not listed. Plain hemp is listed on both at ?25.00.
There are two classes of VAT, if it's being sold for fishing it attracts 17.5%. If it's being sold as plain feed for pheasants, etc, it is VAT exempt.
R
Roto fryer
Guest
and did you ask him
1:why price increases that are more than 10 years inflation in one go.
2. why on all other particles they are more expensive than any feed merchants.
3: why they are not conducting proper field trials for their new boilie?.
hemp is generally a tenner for 25 kg everywhere.
superhemp is 20 quid everywhere.
haiths are a rip off and you all know it.
perhaps mr king will justify his prices?
well we all know he is taking advantage of bird fanciers and anglers because every one of his supposed unique products are available else where under different names for less than 50% of what haiths charge.
remember haiths have the name robin red not what is in it
1:why price increases that are more than 10 years inflation in one go.
2. why on all other particles they are more expensive than any feed merchants.
3: why they are not conducting proper field trials for their new boilie?.
hemp is generally a tenner for 25 kg everywhere.
superhemp is 20 quid everywhere.
haiths are a rip off and you all know it.
perhaps mr king will justify his prices?
well we all know he is taking advantage of bird fanciers and anglers because every one of his supposed unique products are available else where under different names for less than 50% of what haiths charge.
remember haiths have the name robin red not what is in it
GrahamM
Managing Editor
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Haith's prices generally reflect market trends in that they have increased according to the price of the harvested item.
But what I find most curious is that nobody has mentioned that there are several products that have not increased in price and one in particular, Red Factor, has actually gone down.
Compare Haith's prices with those of bait companies, and compare them with other companies that deal by mail order and you'll find that Haith's prices are quite favourable.
Another thing to bear in mind is that not all seeds and feeds are the same quality (and this is me writing as me now, not as a mouthpiece for Haiths). Take their Superhemp, for instance. I've bought hemp from dozens of suppliers but I have never seen hemp of anywhere near the same quality as that supplied by Haiths. Their hemp is very large and very, very clean compared to any others I've tried.
It's all very well this knock, knock, knock but ignore the those items where your argument doesn't fit. Come on, if you want to be taken seriously let's justify the accusations of rip-off and not ignore those prices that haven't gone up and have, in some instances, gone down.
There is no way Haiths have got away with ripping people off for all the years they've been in business.
I'm not saying there is no case to answer in every single one of their products. What I am saying is that phrases like 'rip-off' are not justified.
But what I find most curious is that nobody has mentioned that there are several products that have not increased in price and one in particular, Red Factor, has actually gone down.
Compare Haith's prices with those of bait companies, and compare them with other companies that deal by mail order and you'll find that Haith's prices are quite favourable.
Another thing to bear in mind is that not all seeds and feeds are the same quality (and this is me writing as me now, not as a mouthpiece for Haiths). Take their Superhemp, for instance. I've bought hemp from dozens of suppliers but I have never seen hemp of anywhere near the same quality as that supplied by Haiths. Their hemp is very large and very, very clean compared to any others I've tried.
It's all very well this knock, knock, knock but ignore the those items where your argument doesn't fit. Come on, if you want to be taken seriously let's justify the accusations of rip-off and not ignore those prices that haven't gone up and have, in some instances, gone down.
There is no way Haiths have got away with ripping people off for all the years they've been in business.
I'm not saying there is no case to answer in every single one of their products. What I am saying is that phrases like 'rip-off' are not justified.
C
Carp Angler
Guest
I agree that you can't generalise on the term 'rip off', but some justifications are needed and a keen eye on whether the rather bizarre price differences do actually come into line.
I agree with Graham that the quality of all the products I've had from Haiths has been second to none.
I've tried cheap copies of Red Band and it really is so inferior it's almost laughable.
I am slightly concerned about the info of new boilies coming onto the market with no testing, especially if Ken Townley has his name all over them.
See my previous posting about his morals.
I agree with Graham that the quality of all the products I've had from Haiths has been second to none.
I've tried cheap copies of Red Band and it really is so inferior it's almost laughable.
I am slightly concerned about the info of new boilies coming onto the market with no testing, especially if Ken Townley has his name all over them.
See my previous posting about his morals.
R
Roto fryer
Guest
haiths prices do not reflect market trends. where else do you see 40+% increases in prices? certianly not in the spot prices.
if you think haiths is cheap then go to any local farmers seed merchant.
i have spent ages circumventing th erip off companies and it is easy if you know how.
chilean hemp (giant) aquafeed.com blah blah
if you think haiths is cheap then go to any local farmers seed merchant.
i have spent ages circumventing th erip off companies and it is easy if you know how.
chilean hemp (giant) aquafeed.com blah blah
S
Steve Parsons
Guest
I take the point about some prices being the same or less in the bird or fishing sections.I hadn't noticed these before as i was only pricing bait i was interested in using this coming summer.
S
Steve Parsons
Guest
Rik
You say you have used copies of Red Band but they are not as good,are both Haiths versions the same?I was getting it from a bird seed merchant who has now closed.I don't know if i was getting the"FF" version or the birdfood version.
You say you have used copies of Red Band but they are not as good,are both Haiths versions the same?I was getting it from a bird seed merchant who has now closed.I don't know if i was getting the"FF" version or the birdfood version.
GrahamM
Managing Editor
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Roto said: "well we all know he is taking advantage of bird fanciers and anglers because every one of his supposed unique products are available elsewhere under different names for less than 50% of what haiths charge."
Roto, perhaps you would care to supply us with some names and addresses, and especially a phone number or two. I'd like to do some research on this.
Especially some comparisons of the actual product and not just the price.
Roto, perhaps you would care to supply us with some names and addresses, and especially a phone number or two. I'd like to do some research on this.
Especially some comparisons of the actual product and not just the price.
R
Roto fryer
Guest
hahaha graham i aint doing your work for you but you can start by looking at percy chapmans
GrahamM
Managing Editor
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I'm not asking you to do any work for me, it's just a case of me not taking the slur on Haiths (or any other company) lightly, without some solid evidence to back up the claims.
In fact, all I'm saying is supply me with the names (and phone numbers) of these companies that cut Haiths by 50% and I'll do all the work of checking that what you're claiming is correct - taking everything into account, including postage costs and quality of product.
Unless we can do something to substantiate what could amount to libellous accusations then I think it's time we all had a long hard think before posting any further comments.
Furthermore, I've investigated this statement as well from Mr Fryer:
"mike wilmot also asked haiths about a new range of boilies they are producing. they have been field tested by two anglers for five weeks before production !!!"
The boilies you refer to have been mentioned by Ken Townley in Carp Talk weekly, issue number 399. I'm told that Ken said they were based on Robin Red and to 'watch this space.' As far as I am aware there has been no mention by either Haiths or Ken Townley anywhere about field-testing periods or even when these boilies will hit the market.
So again, I ask, where is the evidence of your claim?
Website forums, and those that write on them, are not exempt from court actions for libel.
In fact, all I'm saying is supply me with the names (and phone numbers) of these companies that cut Haiths by 50% and I'll do all the work of checking that what you're claiming is correct - taking everything into account, including postage costs and quality of product.
Unless we can do something to substantiate what could amount to libellous accusations then I think it's time we all had a long hard think before posting any further comments.
Furthermore, I've investigated this statement as well from Mr Fryer:
"mike wilmot also asked haiths about a new range of boilies they are producing. they have been field tested by two anglers for five weeks before production !!!"
The boilies you refer to have been mentioned by Ken Townley in Carp Talk weekly, issue number 399. I'm told that Ken said they were based on Robin Red and to 'watch this space.' As far as I am aware there has been no mention by either Haiths or Ken Townley anywhere about field-testing periods or even when these boilies will hit the market.
So again, I ask, where is the evidence of your claim?
Website forums, and those that write on them, are not exempt from court actions for libel.
R
Roto fryer
Guest
ok mr marsden here is a letter from haths confirming that they are thinking more about the exploitation of anglers.
"Dear Paul
Thank you for your email sent 8th April.
Unfotunately we were unable to keep the price of Robin Red as low as it was
and I have listed below some of the reasons for this:
Many of the complex ingredients that go into this product have increased in
price over the past year whilst we have held the retail price of Robin Red
for a number of years. It is now impossible for us to absorb the cost.
There are many inferior copies of Robin Red on the market and some people
are buying them unaware of this fact. We have therefore, at great cost,
registered this product as a trademark to protect its quality and our
customers.
For many years now Haith's have sold Robin Red far cheaper than other bait
companies, which was due to the low investment in our fishing range. We
have now brought Robin Red closer in price (although still cheaper!!) to
that of companies who purchase the product from us. We needed to do this to
reflect the level of investment in this competitive market.
Many of our other products have increased by little more than the rate of
inflation.
Robin Red is still far cheaper than an equivalent quality boilie mix.
Robin Red is widely acknowledged as one of the greatest attractors of all
time - used sparingly it can make even the cheapest boilie mix more
productive!
I hope the above explains our reasons but if you would like any further
information please let me know.
Regards
Lynn"
graham do your own homework m8 because im not supplying my contacts to you. and if you want to see exactly what mike wilmott said i suggest you go and check out the rmc site
"Dear Paul
Thank you for your email sent 8th April.
Unfotunately we were unable to keep the price of Robin Red as low as it was
and I have listed below some of the reasons for this:
Many of the complex ingredients that go into this product have increased in
price over the past year whilst we have held the retail price of Robin Red
for a number of years. It is now impossible for us to absorb the cost.
There are many inferior copies of Robin Red on the market and some people
are buying them unaware of this fact. We have therefore, at great cost,
registered this product as a trademark to protect its quality and our
customers.
For many years now Haith's have sold Robin Red far cheaper than other bait
companies, which was due to the low investment in our fishing range. We
have now brought Robin Red closer in price (although still cheaper!!) to
that of companies who purchase the product from us. We needed to do this to
reflect the level of investment in this competitive market.
Many of our other products have increased by little more than the rate of
inflation.
Robin Red is still far cheaper than an equivalent quality boilie mix.
Robin Red is widely acknowledged as one of the greatest attractors of all
time - used sparingly it can make even the cheapest boilie mix more
productive!
I hope the above explains our reasons but if you would like any further
information please let me know.
Regards
Lynn"
graham do your own homework m8 because im not supplying my contacts to you. and if you want to see exactly what mike wilmott said i suggest you go and check out the rmc site
S
Stuart Johnson
Guest
Roto, you raise some good points. But is this your real name?. If it is not, what is your real name. Surely by using your real name this will add strengh to you argument. A price is a price and is not always value for money. If a item costs ?15 and does not work and a similiar item costs ?25 and does work, which is the best value. In my book the item that costs ?25 is. Come on roto show the conviction of your points and reveal your self. Apologies upfront if Roto is in deed your real name.
D
David Will
Guest
Graham apart from what has been said on this forum Haiths have a consumer confidence problem. It does not help when prices for the same product vary between depending on which bit of their web site you visit.I did read what they said about updating the site.It also doesn't help in the current climate when you ring them to be asked if the Robin Red you wish to buy is for angling or birds.I asked why I was being asked and I was told it was because birds and fishing are two different departments? grounds for suspicion or not this makes me wonder.I told them it was for birds but was not transferred , however I was told the price had gone from ?6.10 to ?10.00 something for 2 kilo.That is a huge jump. I cannot imagine what market force has caused this huge rise. It is up to Haiths what they charge it is up to the consumer if they pay. All I would say to anyone is if you want particles/trout/CSL pellets is shop around try and buy in bulk and avoid postal charges. For info Hinders want over ?20.00 for three kilo of Roger Red
so Haiths do them on price.I am looking around for mine.
so Haiths do them on price.I am looking around for mine.
R
Roto is paul bax
Guest
haha im not a kitchen appliance m8.
ive changed it so u can all see.
continuing on this story simon king of haiths accuses me of unfairly picking on one product!!! to true robin red has gone up 41% because of its successful use in angling.
dont forget robin red is a collection of spices and a bit of colouring that can be bought from roche
ive changed it so u can all see.
continuing on this story simon king of haiths accuses me of unfairly picking on one product!!! to true robin red has gone up 41% because of its successful use in angling.
dont forget robin red is a collection of spices and a bit of colouring that can be bought from roche
GrahamM
Managing Editor
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Roto/Paul, you keep saying I'm trying to get you to do my work, or homework, for me, so what exactly are you implying? That I want you to tell me where I can buy cheap (and possibly inferior) bait?
I'm one of the lucky ones that gets his bait for nothing, so come on, why do I need you to do my homework?
I'll tell you why I want to know, for the exact reasons I've already said, so I can check the claims being made.
But don't you think that this 'war' you have against Haiths, and whatever it is you're insinuating about me, is taking cynicism just a little too far? And that you're too ready to believe and quote those people who obviously have a problem with Ken Townley?
Maybe you're right about all this, but just repeating yourself without supplying any evidence to substantiate your claims isn't helping anybody. Quoting other people isn't proving a thing.
And all the letter from Haiths explains is why they've put up the price of Robin Red. They've also reduced the price of some of their other products that anglers use.
But nobody seems to want to mention that.
One more point, if you're so concerned about anglers being exploited, why don't you tell everyone where all this cheap bait is? If we all bought it from your sources that would surely make their competitors reduce their prices so they could continue to compete.
Then you would have proved your point, put Haiths out of business, provided all your fellow anglers with a source of cheap bait, and become a really happy angler along with the rest of us.
I'm one of the lucky ones that gets his bait for nothing, so come on, why do I need you to do my homework?
I'll tell you why I want to know, for the exact reasons I've already said, so I can check the claims being made.
But don't you think that this 'war' you have against Haiths, and whatever it is you're insinuating about me, is taking cynicism just a little too far? And that you're too ready to believe and quote those people who obviously have a problem with Ken Townley?
Maybe you're right about all this, but just repeating yourself without supplying any evidence to substantiate your claims isn't helping anybody. Quoting other people isn't proving a thing.
And all the letter from Haiths explains is why they've put up the price of Robin Red. They've also reduced the price of some of their other products that anglers use.
But nobody seems to want to mention that.
One more point, if you're so concerned about anglers being exploited, why don't you tell everyone where all this cheap bait is? If we all bought it from your sources that would surely make their competitors reduce their prices so they could continue to compete.
Then you would have proved your point, put Haiths out of business, provided all your fellow anglers with a source of cheap bait, and become a really happy angler along with the rest of us.
R
Roto is paul bax
Guest
graham i gave you one place that does stuff cheaper than haiths.
now you keep going on about inferior grade particles. if you know anything about grains you will know that there is no better quality than the top grade available to all suppliers.i know for a fact that the same people supply haiths as supply most of the others. why are you the lone voice standing up for a company that admits in writing that it sees robin red as a boilie and then also admits, in writing, that its new pricing structure is based on this fact.
there is a book being written as we speak exposing the rip offs in angling.
some of the prices i get things for
salmon oil 2.00 per litre
n butyric acid 15.00 per litre
so called csl pellets 5.00 per 25 kg
flavours from 10.50 per litre
graham let me tell you something else i dont care who u are as ive never heard of you or anything you have done but if you get free bait you have a vested interest in keeping the giant angling rip off going and however you try and put the emphasis on me to supply you my contacts i aint going to do it. why dont you talk to richworth and ask them who supplies them? want some human grade extract of liver 5 litres for 25 quid? sold by richworth 100ml for 6.00
graham i know what im talking about and can prove my claims in court if required to but i aint giving you the or anyone else the results of many years work.
my friends get it for free but you lot aint qualified as that yet
now you keep going on about inferior grade particles. if you know anything about grains you will know that there is no better quality than the top grade available to all suppliers.i know for a fact that the same people supply haiths as supply most of the others. why are you the lone voice standing up for a company that admits in writing that it sees robin red as a boilie and then also admits, in writing, that its new pricing structure is based on this fact.
there is a book being written as we speak exposing the rip offs in angling.
some of the prices i get things for
salmon oil 2.00 per litre
n butyric acid 15.00 per litre
so called csl pellets 5.00 per 25 kg
flavours from 10.50 per litre
graham let me tell you something else i dont care who u are as ive never heard of you or anything you have done but if you get free bait you have a vested interest in keeping the giant angling rip off going and however you try and put the emphasis on me to supply you my contacts i aint going to do it. why dont you talk to richworth and ask them who supplies them? want some human grade extract of liver 5 litres for 25 quid? sold by richworth 100ml for 6.00
graham i know what im talking about and can prove my claims in court if required to but i aint giving you the or anyone else the results of many years work.
my friends get it for free but you lot aint qualified as that yet
GrahamM
Managing Editor
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- 9,773
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- 1
I think you read my posts to suit your own argument rather than what they actually say.
My motive for telling you I get free bait was to refute your insinuation that the only reason I wanted to know your suppliers was to cop some cheap bait for myself. That must have been abundantly clear to everyone else.
You also seem unable (or unwilling) to understand what the letter from Haith's says. Does it not say:
?Many of the complex ingredients that go into this product have increased in
price over the past year whilst we have held the retail price of Robin Red
for a number of years. It is now impossible for us to absorb the cost.?
And how about:
?There are many inferior copies of Robin Red on the market and some people
are buying them unaware of this fact. ?
Then there is:
?For many years now Haith's have sold Robin Red far cheaper than other bait
companies, which was due to the low investment in our fishing range. We
have now brought Robin Red closer in price (although still cheaper!!) to
that of companies who purchase the product from us. We needed to do this to
reflect the level of investment in this competitive market.?
Robin Red in the fishing section is ?4.80 for 500g
Robin Red in the Bird section is ?4.80 for 500g.
Where are anglers being exploited here?
And if you knew anything about grains and other products that deteriorate with time you would know that the company that sells high volumes is most likely to sell you fresh goods. Many of the products you see that seriously undercut the normal price are cheap because they?re well past the date when they should have been binned. Hemp is probably the most popular seed with anglers, and are you seriously telling me that there is no difference between hemp (of the same claimed grade) between one company and another?
Two years ago I bought large, best grade hemp from several sources to see for myself what the difference was. The difference was staggering. The worst was full of mites, dust and shells. The best was undoubtedly Haiths that was clean, almost polished, no dust to speak of, and distinctly bigger than the others.
So don?t tell me there is ?no better quality than the top grade available to all suppliers.? It might start off being pretty much the same but by the time some of them have re-graded it, not cleaned it, and then stored it for god knows how long in a poor storage climate, it doesn?t end up the same by any stretch of the imagination.
Then you say ?let me tell you something else i dont care who u are as ive never heard of you or anything you have done but if you get free bait you have a vested interest in keeping the giant angling rip off going.?
Now, you?ve just taken that step too far, because let me tell you, I don?t care who I am either, and I?m old enough to have forgotten what I?ve done (if anything), and I don?t give a flying f*** whether you?ve heard of me or not. Because that has absolutely nothing to do with this debate.
But just in case there is anyone out there who is taking anything you say seriously, I do not have a vested interest in ?keeping the giant angling rip-off.?
How the hell do you work that one out? Where do I get any benefit from nurturing such a situation? If angling prices come down why would that stop me getting free bait?
I reckon you?re getting your jollies from making wild accusations. But now it?s personal.
My motive for telling you I get free bait was to refute your insinuation that the only reason I wanted to know your suppliers was to cop some cheap bait for myself. That must have been abundantly clear to everyone else.
You also seem unable (or unwilling) to understand what the letter from Haith's says. Does it not say:
?Many of the complex ingredients that go into this product have increased in
price over the past year whilst we have held the retail price of Robin Red
for a number of years. It is now impossible for us to absorb the cost.?
And how about:
?There are many inferior copies of Robin Red on the market and some people
are buying them unaware of this fact. ?
Then there is:
?For many years now Haith's have sold Robin Red far cheaper than other bait
companies, which was due to the low investment in our fishing range. We
have now brought Robin Red closer in price (although still cheaper!!) to
that of companies who purchase the product from us. We needed to do this to
reflect the level of investment in this competitive market.?
Robin Red in the fishing section is ?4.80 for 500g
Robin Red in the Bird section is ?4.80 for 500g.
Where are anglers being exploited here?
And if you knew anything about grains and other products that deteriorate with time you would know that the company that sells high volumes is most likely to sell you fresh goods. Many of the products you see that seriously undercut the normal price are cheap because they?re well past the date when they should have been binned. Hemp is probably the most popular seed with anglers, and are you seriously telling me that there is no difference between hemp (of the same claimed grade) between one company and another?
Two years ago I bought large, best grade hemp from several sources to see for myself what the difference was. The difference was staggering. The worst was full of mites, dust and shells. The best was undoubtedly Haiths that was clean, almost polished, no dust to speak of, and distinctly bigger than the others.
So don?t tell me there is ?no better quality than the top grade available to all suppliers.? It might start off being pretty much the same but by the time some of them have re-graded it, not cleaned it, and then stored it for god knows how long in a poor storage climate, it doesn?t end up the same by any stretch of the imagination.
Then you say ?let me tell you something else i dont care who u are as ive never heard of you or anything you have done but if you get free bait you have a vested interest in keeping the giant angling rip off going.?
Now, you?ve just taken that step too far, because let me tell you, I don?t care who I am either, and I?m old enough to have forgotten what I?ve done (if anything), and I don?t give a flying f*** whether you?ve heard of me or not. Because that has absolutely nothing to do with this debate.
But just in case there is anyone out there who is taking anything you say seriously, I do not have a vested interest in ?keeping the giant angling rip-off.?
How the hell do you work that one out? Where do I get any benefit from nurturing such a situation? If angling prices come down why would that stop me getting free bait?
I reckon you?re getting your jollies from making wild accusations. But now it?s personal.