sam vimes
Well-known member
Yep, and you've answered mine by ignoring the rest.
Yep, and you've answered mine by ignoring the rest.
cg74
Well-known member
Ravenstonedale you're having a laugh and being oh so selective in your choice of photos. It the bloody headwaters of the Lune. Less than 5 miles from it source. And all headwaters of the Northern Spate rivers start like that. Dammed it that geology again!
The ones on the Eden, again headwaters and I personally know some of the shots. Got one very similar from Kirby Stephens on my phone as the background.
Strange not that you didn't use any from the mid to lower reaches of all the rivers.
Nice try to dupe people, but very predictable.... rumbled all the same.
Oh and we can all claim to have fished somewhere, google it find a fishing club and the waters it controls, hotel we stayed in, etc, doesn't me we did does it! Do I believe you, Nop!
As to my typos well no body's perfect, as you've shown with the oh so dodgy photos
Topography - A description of a general area ie landscapes, towns, cities.
No I don't think they are a safe rig on the Ribble. Said that some post ago and gave the reasons why... Keep up old chap!
Chub the westward running spate rivers are acidic pH 6+ because of the moorland peat that drains into them. Eastward running rivers are buffered by the carboniferous limestone they run over.
Sam I think you've answered your own question by stating you understand the toxicity of lead.
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Oh and just to show you we can all put photos up of the headwaters and Forces. This one is Catrigg Force at Stainforth on the Ribble. Yep and I know this one as well, my club has two lengths just above it
Google Image Result for http://www.bluestoneimages.com/images/03D-7203_Catrigg_Force_Waterfall_in_Early_Autumn_Stainforth_Ribblesdale_Yorkshire_Dales_UK.jpg
I can't get your links to work, not that it really matters, as it's all by the by.
The facts as you've presented them:
ALL the dead fish you find, averaging 2 a week in the summer months, have fixed rigs hanging from their mouths. I should thank you at this point, as out of common courtesy I abstained from calling you an over-exaggerating liar but because you lack similar courtesy - no worries!
If your claims are true (I'm certainly not alone with my doubts), a quick pic of said fish, showing the rig and say the previous days paper. Present this evidence to your club's committee and they'll have to act, You waffled something about only controlling one bank - surely halving the problem is better doing than nothing?
Once your club has implemented its ban (which we established; it can), carry on recording deaths as I described and then present the evidence to all the other controlling bodies/individuals - that'd be proactive bailiffing!
Going on your claim of two deaths per week during the summer, which strictly speaking is June, July and August, though in terms of anglers on the bank, tends to carry on well into September. That would equate to 20-30 dead fish to use too emphasise your point.
You say fixed rigs aren't safe on 'your' river but the only thing you've offered as a reason is that due to the cost of weights/feeders, anglers are inclined to push the sleeves on a bit to far, so I'll say it again (not for TBO as he doesn't read to well) - FIXED LEAD SYSTEMS ARE FINE IF USED CORRECTLY!
and if used incorrectly; it's a failing of the angler, not the rig!
The bad one
Well-known member
Oh Dear we're going round in circles now! not to worry!
1 You base your argument on all anglers using the "rig" you advocate that dumps the lead/feeder. That I've questioned as to whether we should be increasing the load of a known persistent toxic substance.
It's all very easy to write a justification on website of a fixed rig use advocated by you, but as we both know they are many ways to fish a fixed rig, many types of it, many types of anglers that use those rigs and fish the river. Some of them wouldn't know common sense if it bit them on the arse! Sorry, the fish the river bit you don't know, but take as read there are!
There are no national standards enforceable in law (EA enforceable) what constitutes a safe rig. There is only AT's Code of Conduct and any club's rules on the matter. So in general anglers are free to use what they want and do.
2 Here's how it works and I've described in detail how rigs are lost on the Ribble and why. Angler loses a fix rig, that rig still has bait attached, fish picks up bait, gets tethered struggles to free itself, if it's successful it's towing that rig around until it's caught or snags firm on another snag that it can't extricate itself from and dies a slow death of exhaustion. River comes up on a flood frees the carcass including rig and drift off down river and settle out, usually on what passes for riparian gravels on the river, as the river falls. I come along and find them. And note here it's chub and barbel not just barbel in the two a week. But of course according to you I'm a over-exaggerating liar and making all this up. Yeh right I am!
3 Put it to the committee then it would be halved Oh if it was only that simple. Rightly the committee would say "How do you know its our members and our lengths it happening on. Err I don't, because those fish could have drifted down several miles and I've already said that above. Oh and btw even if my club did bring in such a rule (not likely too without very firm evidence) it would only cut the losses by a sixths from the clubs perspective on the river. Already said that as well. There's also the dayticket lengths, 3 and the owners don't give a monkeys about how they are fished. So the true figure would only cut the losses by a ninth. As to getting an agreement from all the clubs my comment was and still is, the RFC is, "it's like put six cats in a bag and watching them fight." They can agree on very little. So that's complete none starter.
Proactive bailiffing is about education through discussion with the members on the bank when they are telling you about losing six rigs in six casts and they running out of lead/feeders. Using the big stick where club rules allow you to is the last resort when that education has failed.
Oh and I don't shy away from that when it's needed I can assure you of that.
All clubs on the river are being pervaded by an activity that started in the carp world known as, "having a social in one anglers peg." This can involve one or more fellow anglers congregating in fellow anglers peg. Leaving two rods anything up to a 100 yards away unattended with baited hooks in the water. Not only is it illegal, it's dangerous to the welfare of the fish.
So what has this waffle got to do with this topic, well there's no doubt in my mined that some of the deaths are attributable to this practice. How many I don't know but when I come across it the big stick is well used.
And if the pricks doing it lose there membership of the club, good riddance to them. I'll lose no sleep about it that's for sure.
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Maybe if you vetted your new would be members before they were allowed to join you may save your fish and yourself a lot of grief putting the rules t them in the nicest possible way and asking a few pertinent questions as to how they fish.
cg74
Well-known member
"Oh Dear we're going round in circles now!"
Only because of you continually evading the question; can a fixed rig be a safe rig?
Then you go off on a tangent about the toxicity of lead, without answering the initial question and to be fair we both know why that is - because they can be perfectly safe!
I fully accept that they are easily abused and some/many will purposely set up rigs incorrectly to save on lost tackle (money) but that's not the fault of the rig, that's a ****** abusing a system.
Now if you were to ask me what my ideal of a safe barbel rig is; I wouldn't use a lead clip (not because they're unsafe but because I prefer the feedback offered by a running rig), my choice would be a simple running lead, with a size 12 large eyed swivel running on your mainline, a buffer bead and a size 12 swivel, with the lead joined via an inch of line that has a reliably consistent breaking point (I like Reflo Power line), the lead should be either an arlesey bomb or one with just a loop, the 'rotten bottom' should be masked by a length of silicon tubing. No float/grippa stops etc
As for hooklinks I'd say if rig safety really is a priority, then it should be of a weaker linear strength than your mainline.
" But of course according to you I'm a over-exaggerating liar and making all this up. Yeh right I am!"
Sorry but you've done nothing to prove your figures are accurate and why would I take your word when you don't take mine?
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The bad one
Well-known member
No they can't on the Ribble for all the reasons I've given. Is that clear enogh for you?
Tinker you have a point and it was like that when I joined the club back in the early 70s. Sadly in mine and many longstanding members views it should still be.
Sadly it sounds a case of never mind the qaulity feel the width I know of a few clubs that have dropped the practice of vetting for the practicality of covering falling membership and higher rents you have my sympathy.