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Frothey
Guest
is that instead of asking "rik" (sorry rik)
ah bless, is that what this is really about stu?
ah bless, is that what this is really about stu?
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Quandary
- Thread starter Tim Birch
- Start date
C
Cheeky Monkey too
Guest
Break!
Round Three - ding, ding!
Round Three - ding, ding!
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Cakey
Guest
Corr blimey ...why do I have to work at the wrong times......evening all
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Malcolm Bason
Guest
Evenin Cakey - it ain't arf bin good!
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Cakey
Guest
So I see .....Im now frightened to put my views forward.....
Stuart Dennis
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OK, OK I apologise Floppy and I take it all back mate and more importantly I bow to your greater knowledge, in fact as do we all. So sorry, ok, sorry! You are right and I was wrong - Sorry!
Amazing how his latest comment completely swerved my points though!
Amazing how his latest comment completely swerved my points though!
Stuart Dennis
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Wahaaa! I rest my case!
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Big Rik
Guest
I don't know how my name got dragged into this, I've been asleep all day (nightshift).
Firstly, here are my observations on some of your points.
"Tim Birch, your comments "I think therefore they may patrol the edges of the baited pach until the smaller fish dwindle?"
Stu - It's not they they will dwindle, its that the bigger fish will bully them out.
Frothy - could it also be theres little bait left to hold the smaller "hungrier" fish so they move off and the bigger fish move in to polish off whats left?"
Riks comment - Smaller, hungrier fish, still hungry, then move away from the baited area, because there isn't a pile of bait left, only a small amount, which the bigger fish will find appealing?
Now that is a crock of shit.
Why would the smaller fish move away when there is some bait left?
Why would a bigger fish not get in on the action?
If it's Stafford Moor, then the fish are hardly older and wiser.
Maybe, they would hang outside the general melee, but then baiting a wider area would probably be preferable anyway, but then they would only wait around so long and then they get in there themselves.
I've seen carp nudge other carp out of the way and it's not necessarily the bigger fish that bully, but they will move in on the feeding activity.
Apart from physical bait size, then no bait can be specifically aimed at bigger carp.
It doesn't work like that.
Application yes, but I'd be more inclined to feed heavily and continually, to draw into the area and catch as many fish as possible.
Experience (mine) states that the bigger fish WILL commandeer the area.
Stuart raises a valid pointer in trying different methods on different rods as you may be unaware of a method that may have absolutely slayed the place last year and the fish may be very wary off.
But Frotheys general statement that big carp are not where there is any bait sounds completely off the mark.
Why would this be?
Do carp grow big by not eating?
They may be wary of beds of bait, but if there are large numbers of smaller carp, then they'd better get their heads down quick, or else the large carp will quickly become skinny carp.
I mostly agree with the points that Stuart has raised and the advice he's given, not because he's a mate, but we fish together because we tend to have the same views.
I'm not going to fish with somebody who doesn't have a clue how it all works and only fishes waters that have no relation to anything that I'm targetting.
Firstly, here are my observations on some of your points.
"Tim Birch, your comments "I think therefore they may patrol the edges of the baited pach until the smaller fish dwindle?"
Stu - It's not they they will dwindle, its that the bigger fish will bully them out.
Frothy - could it also be theres little bait left to hold the smaller "hungrier" fish so they move off and the bigger fish move in to polish off whats left?"
Riks comment - Smaller, hungrier fish, still hungry, then move away from the baited area, because there isn't a pile of bait left, only a small amount, which the bigger fish will find appealing?
Now that is a crock of shit.
Why would the smaller fish move away when there is some bait left?
Why would a bigger fish not get in on the action?
If it's Stafford Moor, then the fish are hardly older and wiser.
Maybe, they would hang outside the general melee, but then baiting a wider area would probably be preferable anyway, but then they would only wait around so long and then they get in there themselves.
I've seen carp nudge other carp out of the way and it's not necessarily the bigger fish that bully, but they will move in on the feeding activity.
Apart from physical bait size, then no bait can be specifically aimed at bigger carp.
It doesn't work like that.
Application yes, but I'd be more inclined to feed heavily and continually, to draw into the area and catch as many fish as possible.
Experience (mine) states that the bigger fish WILL commandeer the area.
Stuart raises a valid pointer in trying different methods on different rods as you may be unaware of a method that may have absolutely slayed the place last year and the fish may be very wary off.
But Frotheys general statement that big carp are not where there is any bait sounds completely off the mark.
Why would this be?
Do carp grow big by not eating?
They may be wary of beds of bait, but if there are large numbers of smaller carp, then they'd better get their heads down quick, or else the large carp will quickly become skinny carp.
I mostly agree with the points that Stuart has raised and the advice he's given, not because he's a mate, but we fish together because we tend to have the same views.
I'm not going to fish with somebody who doesn't have a clue how it all works and only fishes waters that have no relation to anything that I'm targetting.
Stuart Dennis
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Cheques in the post mate!
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Frothey
Guest
i did say sorry rik...
this has got blown way out of proportion. all i did initially was suggest applying less bait. i said all along that this was something i'd found worked on one water that sounded the same as tims (large head of small fish) and it might be worth a try. i never said "this is the method", and i never said to only use it. i agree that heavy baiting will work - as i stated, i do it on other waters, but if your only there for a short spell, it MIGHT work against you. the bigger fish in stafford (which i dont actually fish that much) are actually from other lakes, or are origionals from when it was a trout lake. the simmo's are the "problem".
the bait size thing...again, i prefer smaller baits, but double 18mm's will at least mean you can generally avoid the 1 pounders.
you might think everything i say is a crock of shit, i might not agree with everything someone else says, but then we're all catching carp, so no-one can be totally wrong can we?
this has got blown way out of proportion. all i did initially was suggest applying less bait. i said all along that this was something i'd found worked on one water that sounded the same as tims (large head of small fish) and it might be worth a try. i never said "this is the method", and i never said to only use it. i agree that heavy baiting will work - as i stated, i do it on other waters, but if your only there for a short spell, it MIGHT work against you. the bigger fish in stafford (which i dont actually fish that much) are actually from other lakes, or are origionals from when it was a trout lake. the simmo's are the "problem".
the bait size thing...again, i prefer smaller baits, but double 18mm's will at least mean you can generally avoid the 1 pounders.
you might think everything i say is a crock of shit, i might not agree with everything someone else says, but then we're all catching carp, so no-one can be totally wrong can we?
M
Malcolm Bason
Guest
I never catch anything, so I really must be a crock of sh1t eh? LOL
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Big Rik
Guest
I don't even understand what the
"is that instead of asking "rik" " comment is all about.
If you're implying that Stu asks me questions all the time, then it most definitely isn't the case.
4 or 5 years ago it was, but since then he has become a consumate and accomplished thinker and questioner in his own right.
Yes, we bounce ideas off each other, but generally it's tactics, rigs and applications that would be of no benefit to the majority of anglers that view this forum.
I don't need to prove myself to anybody that I have the experience in catching numbers and sizes of fish that means I can answer people queries, using actual experiences of my own.
If I think what you say is a crock of shit, then I'll tell you.
Agreed that many methods may work, but certain ones will be better.
It's the thinking behind why a method will work over or better than another that makes the angler.
Then being able to utilise or adapt that method or methods, for other waters, or times, when it's appropriate, that makes you a better angler and able to think for yourself and ultimately improve your catch rates.
Comments like 'I prefer smaller baits' just puts you back in the mix with the hordes of non-thinking, blinkered campers that descend most weekends.
"is that instead of asking "rik" " comment is all about.
If you're implying that Stu asks me questions all the time, then it most definitely isn't the case.
4 or 5 years ago it was, but since then he has become a consumate and accomplished thinker and questioner in his own right.
Yes, we bounce ideas off each other, but generally it's tactics, rigs and applications that would be of no benefit to the majority of anglers that view this forum.
I don't need to prove myself to anybody that I have the experience in catching numbers and sizes of fish that means I can answer people queries, using actual experiences of my own.
If I think what you say is a crock of shit, then I'll tell you.
Agreed that many methods may work, but certain ones will be better.
It's the thinking behind why a method will work over or better than another that makes the angler.
Then being able to utilise or adapt that method or methods, for other waters, or times, when it's appropriate, that makes you a better angler and able to think for yourself and ultimately improve your catch rates.
Comments like 'I prefer smaller baits' just puts you back in the mix with the hordes of non-thinking, blinkered campers that descend most weekends.
Stuart Dennis
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You should have written "I prefer smaller baits on some waters and bigger baits on others". But you wrote "I prefer smaller baits" and well, thats just not on...yeah, there you go, give me a shout if you want to use any more of my material mate.
Always happy to help!
Always happy to help!
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Frothey
Guest
just the same as saying everything i do is off jeeves i guess, flippant remark and i apologised for bringing you into it. wants wrong with asking questions anyway?
i've never said you need to prove anything to anyone. we all have different experiences, and as you said, we're fishing totally different waters. and lets not forget that the vast majority of articles on any media arent really aimed at "experienced" (whatever that means) anglers anyway
like i said rik "prefer" to use, not always use - i've been talking about bigger baits on here, and as you said, theres a time and a place for everything. stu said about most of his bigger fish coming to 12mils....
i really take offence at the last comment....i fish mid week...
i've never said you need to prove anything to anyone. we all have different experiences, and as you said, we're fishing totally different waters. and lets not forget that the vast majority of articles on any media arent really aimed at "experienced" (whatever that means) anglers anyway
like i said rik "prefer" to use, not always use - i've been talking about bigger baits on here, and as you said, theres a time and a place for everything. stu said about most of his bigger fish coming to 12mils....
i really take offence at the last comment....i fish mid week...
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Frothey
Guest
you done that hooksize article for me yet?
Frothey - I found best method on shortish coated hooklengths using boilie funnel web from 1" to 3: long full of spod mix. Hookbait was 14mm Trigga Ice to size 8 longshank nailer blowback on one rod, size 10 korda wide gape B with line aliner (almost Claw?) on other rod.
Rik Your comments are well appreciated. Your post 'I don't know how my name got dragged into this' Seems to make perfect sense as does frotheys comments, but all waters are different.
I guess I/we will never know for sure until I try these ideas and see what happens.
Please continue though, this is turning out to be an excellent thread.
Maybe the time of year will lend itself well to Riks tactics as the fish should be coming on for a binge I reckon, however a small bait with a small boile web bag placed 5to 10vyards off the baited spot may pick up a bonus lurker.
Rik Your comments are well appreciated. Your post 'I don't know how my name got dragged into this' Seems to make perfect sense as does frotheys comments, but all waters are different.
I guess I/we will never know for sure until I try these ideas and see what happens.
Please continue though, this is turning out to be an excellent thread.
Maybe the time of year will lend itself well to Riks tactics as the fish should be coming on for a binge I reckon, however a small bait with a small boile web bag placed 5to 10vyards off the baited spot may pick up a bonus lurker.
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Big Rik
Guest
Frothey said
"you done that hooksize article for me yet?"
Stuart and I did an article a couple of years ago about hooks and hook sizes.
You can read it from our A question of Carp series.
"you done that hooksize article for me yet?"
Stuart and I did an article a couple of years ago about hooks and hook sizes.
You can read it from our A question of Carp series.
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Big Rik
Guest
Did you read the article Frothey?
Did you find it useful?
If you need any further help or advice, just ask or mail me privately if you want.
Did you find it useful?
If you need any further help or advice, just ask or mail me privately if you want.
F
Frothey
Guest
it was ok, but the one stu mentioned doing a while ago was about testing the effect of the lead on the hook, something along the lines of will a 1oz lead pull a given size/pattern of hook in a given material (piece of bacon rind?) as far as a 4oz lead. if not, will reducing the hooksize or changing the pattern help. could add trying barbless against barbed to the list as well.
once you've come to some conclusion on that, you would have to take into consideration the hooklength material,angle of pull, type of lead..inline or swivel. the shape of lead, how the swivel lead is attached, the type of bottom, lots of variables but it will give you a starting point
obviously dont mean "you", if you know what i mean
once you've come to some conclusion on that, you would have to take into consideration the hooklength material,angle of pull, type of lead..inline or swivel. the shape of lead, how the swivel lead is attached, the type of bottom, lots of variables but it will give you a starting point
obviously dont mean "you", if you know what i mean
S
sash
Guest
Hmmmm, not sure if I dare put forward my experiences but here goes:
I also fish a water that contains a lot of small fish (basically those that the cormorants miss!) from just a couple of pounds to low doubles but also contains a healthy and growing stock of larger fish to 30ish odd pounds.
From my experiences based on fishing it for the last two years I've found that a heavy baiting situation (wether that be particle, pellet, boilie, maggot or combinations) does lead to good catches but very rarely does it result in instant fish. For a while I felt that I was fishing in the wrong areas for the conditions and that the fish were taking time to find my feed or that the fish were spooking when I was feeding and taking their time in coming back. Usually it was the smaller fish that would get on the feed first and they would get muscled out by the better fish as the session progressed.
But unfortunately work commitments rarely allow more than a few hours or a quick overnighter at best so I felt I needed to either choose the areas I was fishing better or change my feeding strategy. After further experiments this year I'm convinced the fish in this particular pit spook off a heavy feeding approach when the feed is introduced in one go at the beginning of the session but I've had far better results in adapting a matchman's approach by feeding little and often with the initial feed geared towards attracting the smaller carp as quickly as possible e.g. maggots, mini pellets, cloud effect groundbait and then regular topping up with larger feed items once the small fish have arrived.
At the end of the day fish feeding (of any species) will usually attract carp so why not use the advantage you have in having the small carp in your lake to attract the better fish?
I also fish a water that contains a lot of small fish (basically those that the cormorants miss!) from just a couple of pounds to low doubles but also contains a healthy and growing stock of larger fish to 30ish odd pounds.
From my experiences based on fishing it for the last two years I've found that a heavy baiting situation (wether that be particle, pellet, boilie, maggot or combinations) does lead to good catches but very rarely does it result in instant fish. For a while I felt that I was fishing in the wrong areas for the conditions and that the fish were taking time to find my feed or that the fish were spooking when I was feeding and taking their time in coming back. Usually it was the smaller fish that would get on the feed first and they would get muscled out by the better fish as the session progressed.
But unfortunately work commitments rarely allow more than a few hours or a quick overnighter at best so I felt I needed to either choose the areas I was fishing better or change my feeding strategy. After further experiments this year I'm convinced the fish in this particular pit spook off a heavy feeding approach when the feed is introduced in one go at the beginning of the session but I've had far better results in adapting a matchman's approach by feeding little and often with the initial feed geared towards attracting the smaller carp as quickly as possible e.g. maggots, mini pellets, cloud effect groundbait and then regular topping up with larger feed items once the small fish have arrived.
At the end of the day fish feeding (of any species) will usually attract carp so why not use the advantage you have in having the small carp in your lake to attract the better fish?