Safety lead Clips

[GrahamM]

Let's clarify a few points, at least how I see them, and provide my own answer:

The debate is about the safety of the 'safety clip' for smaller/weaker species than carp, and that it should be called a 'carp safety clip' so that all anglers, experienced and inexperienced alike, will realise that it isn't necessarily safe for the smaller/weaker species for the simple reason that the smaller/weaker species are not strong enough to release the clip when the lead becomes snagged.

The rig, any rig, needs to be safe if, for any reason, it gets broken or cut off and left in the water with a bait on it that is likely to be taken by any species. Big baits can be taken by the bigger sizes of the smaller/weaker species, or will break down or be whittled down to a size that can be taken by most of the smaller/weaker species.

My own local club, which is dominated by carp anglers, and of which I'm a member of the committee, has taken the step of writing within the rules the stipulation that anyone using the safety clip should cut it down so that minimum pressure is needed to operate it. But that is an answer that only goes some way towards solving the problem.

In my view the only really safe rig is one that uses a running lead.

But that doesn't help the angler to offer a bolt-rig if the rig is totally free-running.

I personally deal with this by using a running lead, but trap it against the leger stop (swivel and bead) with one or two silicon float stops. These are tight enough to offer a bolt-rig to a fish taking the bait, but are not tight enough to prevent a tethered fish from sliding the line through the float stops (and therefore the lead) with a determined pull.

Reference:

<a href=http://www.fishingmagic.com/news/article.asp?UAN=1769&SP=&v=1>Safety Clip</a>

<a href=http://www.fishingmagic.com/news/article.asp?UAN=1376&SP=&v=1>Rig utilising float stops</a>

NOTE: The float stops can be used tight to the lead for an immediate bolt-rig effect, or an inch or two away to allow a certain amount of freedom for the fish to suck in the bait before the lead is felt.

This, to me, is the ultimate safety rig that still allows use of the bolt-rig.

And by ?ultimate? I mean a rig that is effective; that doesn?t pamper fish to a degree that handicaps too much our ability to catch them.

 

[Cakey]

Graham one quick Q how far will a rig like that cast ?
I ask because it looks very clumsy between lead and clip.

 

[Cakey]

Also a bead gives me instant connection to the lead when mr carp takes my bait,your rig looks like 2"of movement possibly.

 

[GrahamM]

Good point Cakey, that's something I should have mentioned. I'm guessing, but I would say it won't cast more than about 75 yards without the float stops slipping. Obviously there is no point adding more floats stops because then you just reach a point where we're back where we started with an unsafe rig.

That's perhaps the point where baitboats should become compulsory rather than being frowned on in some circles.

There's a lot to be said for baitboats that those who would ban them should bear in mind.

 

[Dave Rothery]

does say you can trap the stops up against lead to give bolt.
what if you use a shockleader though? knot wont pass thru the float stops.

 

[Dave Rothery]

doh!

 

[Dave Rothery]

problem is, you can rip any set up to pieces if you want, they all have failings. you can only try and make them as "safe"(whatever that means) as you can.

 

[GrahamM]

Cakey, the 2" you refer to - see first line after 'NOTE:'

Dave, Being as the rig is only suitable for casting up to about 75yds you wouldn't need a shock leader.

 

[Cakey]

Graham I saw the bit after note,the movement im talking about is the length ofthe clips and beads between lead and that sliding bead.

 

[Dave Rothery]

did write that before i saw the post graham, that why i went "doh"!
what do you suggest over that distance where you cant use a baitboat?

 

[GrahamM]

Cakey, for instant bolt-rig effect just use a lead with no swivel or link, one with just half a swivel protruding or just a wire loop.

Dave, I don't have an answer for long range other than a baitboat. I'm hoping somebody else will have a good idea they can pass on to us. Cutting back the clip where the rubber slides on will go some way towards it but even then you will reach a point where it will be hovering between coming adrift on a hefty cast and not being safe for the smaller/weaker species.

It's quite possible we've come to the point where each individual makes a choice and decides for himself whether or not he should fish at long range and risk it with the best possible safety rig for the job, or fish closer in.

My personal choice would be to fish and risk it. There is only so much you can do without being daft about it.

 

[Cakey]

right im off to work.
on the way round i'll pick up some float stops and do some tests to night.

Laterssssssss

 

[GrahamM]

As far as I know there is only one float stop that's up to the job and that's the Drennan ones. All the rest slip too easily.

 

[Rodney Wrestt]

For longer casts pva string on the two swivels could keep some pressure off the float stops on the cast, but then this means the rig is back to being a fixed rig till the pva dissolves.

 

[GrahamM]

Excellent idea Rodney, obviously not without some disadvantages, but it takes us that step nearer to a solution. The time the PVA takes to dissolve is negligible really, especially in the warmer waters of summer and autumn.

 

[Dave Rothery]

as rik pointed out on a previous thread, you've got to be careful knotting pva in winter though.

 

[Dave Rothery]

cant remember what they call them , but i've used solar's semi-fixed clips where you push a normal "run ring" over the bit of rubber that goes over the swivel. a couple of little nipples hold the ring on for bolt effect, but come off easy enough, you could always trim a nipple (ouch!). i've used them for tench, and they always come back seperated.

 

[Dave Rothery]

HERE

and notice he does say carp!

 

[Stuart Bullard]

Blimey - this has gone on a bit. Les, thanks for your answer.

Dave, its the Solar ones I use. I checked at the weekend while blanking....so they must be safe! I cant see any problems with them, safety wise at all, where as having a look at the Nash ones at the weekend I can now see some peoples sensitivities to them.

I cannot remember Gary's concern with safety clips other than their potential for causing harm to other fish.....is this the main concern?

I dont use fixed / bolt rig for anything other than carp / tench fishing, and if I do want some form of "bolt" effect I just pinch on a small soft weight a couple of inches from the swivel, which is much the same as Graham's float stop.

Graham extolling the virtues of bait boats? I never thought I'd hear it!!

 

[Gary Knowles]

Great thread this. I'm not sure whether Stu started the controversy or me so I'd better try and get my point over as clear as I can.

First of all to Mike.

Apologies if my email on Friday seemed to indicate you were dim !...it wasn't meant that way. It was just I'd had a f*kker of a week at work and although this subject has not been aired on FM before I have explained my thoughts on 'safety' clips to many, many carp anglers and although some seem to understand a hell of a lot either don't, or more likely don't want to understand or maybe even just don't care…as long as the carp are alright what's the problem type of mentality. You just get a little weary sometimes and feels your just banging your head against a brick wall. So, don't take the thread personally. Like Budgie and Stu have pointed out, it is good that subjects like this get aired. In fact it is subjects like this that actually make internet forums worthwhile.

In response to your mail I didn't think a roach, chub, small tench or bream would, or could 'steal' your end tackle, obviously they don’t have the strength. But you could possibly lose it….

A couple of scenario's where the 'safety' clip concerns me.

- A crack off upon casting. A smaller / weaker fish than a carp could take the anglers bait. As it is a bolt rig it then finds itself hooked. It then trails the rig around until it finds a snag. It does not have the strength or mass to pull the swivel out of the clip. It's tethered !.....A bigger fish will simply pull the swivel from the clip.

- You cast into, or retreive your line into an immovable snag and have to pull for a break. This is a scenario I have seen a lot these days when barbel anglers or river carpers use the clip on rivers, but it still applies on stillwaters. OK the lead SHOULD come off but if it’s the swivel or front of the clip that has snagged it won't. If a barbel takes the bait it may be lucky enough to dislodge the clip then pull the swivel free, if a chub takes it it's dead !

- Your mainline catches a gravel bar, sharp rock, metal post etc and parts above the 'safety clip'……..A smaller / weaker fish than a carp could take the anglers bait. As it is a bolt rig it then finds itself hooked. It then trails the rig around until it finds a snag. It does not have the strength or mass to pull the swivel out of the clip. It's tethered !.....A bigger fish will simply pull the swivel from the clip.

I'm sure there are more area's for concern but this should be enough to get my point across.

Dave,

I know the clips you mean, made by solar, and when I want to use a bolt rig on a stillwater these are what I now use. I actually cut both 'nipples' off as there is a slight interference fit to the ring/buffer anyway and I find this gives more than enough for a bolt effect whilst remaining very easy to dislodge on a straight pull.

As it happens I rarely use fixed/semi fixed leads now as I believe when you fish with a tight line, especially on a river where the water tension increased the resistance that running legers (unless margin fishing, touch-legering, etc) act as bolt rigs anyway.

Hope this clearly illustrates my concerns….

Gary