What is wrong with some people?

[benny samways]

Sorry, didn't mean to come across as condescending. What I was trying to say was that they just keep throwing hoops at us to jump through and no matter how wrong/rubbish the system seems, sometimes we just have to keep jumping through until we reach the out come we need...if that makes sense.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Very true aswell. The constant hoop jumping is something you have to do just to get by. Thing is, I look around and think we are all in this together so why do we make it so hard for one anothermg:

 

[jasonbean1]

The cheaper the fishing, the bigger the problem.
The closer the venue to large population centres, the bigger the problem.
The more prolific the venue, the bigger the problem.
The more low key the bailiffing/control, the bigger the problem.
The better the availability of day tickets, the bigger the problem.
The more people that have access, the bigger the problem.

Too many folks are now so far removed from the reality of a rural environment by urban/sub-urban living. In the urban environments they inhabit, if a mess is made in a public place, sooner or later someone will clean it up, or at least they think so. Some just don't give a damn whatever the environment they are in.

spot on....

in oxford there is a very well known pit that as had no legal access or fishing for many years, it's threw up record bream and recently rumours of 50lb common carp. it is not looked after one bit, basically free fishing if you dare.

there is a smal group of anglers that try to look after it... but over the last couple of years there as been 4 carp anglers deliberatly making this place hostile and unwelcoming by leaving all there litter.... are they catching i dont know...but does it matter?

basically they are trying to make it there's...i think they have succeeded a bit lately.

lovely lake still.... nowadays if you like to clear your swim with a bin liner full of strongbow cans before you set up and risk fishing over a 20kg bed of carp bait you might catch a big bream or 20 :w

cheers
Jason

 

[blounty65]

all i can say in my experience about acting as a bailief be very careful i had a very nasty experience not long ago(see, bullies on the bank thread) if the son in law hadnt come and rescued me my tackle and myself was going in the pool. im not a small bloke but these kids have no fear and are prepared to use weapons. one of the pools i am a member of allows night fishing and yes the next morning there is rubbish and poo everywhere. now while i appreciate everyone can get caught shoryt its your rubbish and your poo so take it with you.its only the likes of decent anglers that keep our pools tidy and its about time something was done about this minorit

 

[mark brailsford 2]

all i can say in my experience about acting as a bailief be very careful i had a very nasty experience not long ago(see, bullies on the bank thread) if the son in law hadnt come and rescued me my tackle and myself was going in the pool. im not a small bloke but these kids have no fear and are prepared to use weapons. one of the pools i am a member of allows night fishing and yes the next morning there is rubbish and poo everywhere. now while i appreciate everyone can get caught shoryt its your rubbish and your poo so take it with you.its only the likes of decent anglers that keep our pools tidy and its about time something was done about this minorit

You are right mate, I would never put myself in danger by approaching a group (or an individual) on the bank, even though our club rules state that you can act as a bailiff. there have been some nasty confrontations down on my local canal (Chesterfield) and on the river Derwent around Derby. The best advise I would give anyone if you see something wrong is get to a safe place and ring the club/police. It's just not worth the risk guy's. BE SAFE!

 

[terry m]

An interesting thread that potentially could affect all of us directly or indirectly.

It seems to me the proper way to deal with this would be to have proper bailiff activities so they know who's fishing these swims and then they can withdraw their ticket and ban them for the future if it's left littered up.[/QUOTE

I actually disagree with the premise that you need bailiffs to manage behaviours. Bailiffs check books and permits etc, but are they really equipped to deal with yobbish behaviours and individuals that choose to sh1t in public places? Is it too much to expect people to behave in a normal and socially acceptable manner in the first place?

The root cause of such revolting behaviours sits in our wider society.

---------- Post added at 14:52 ---------- Previous post was at 14:46 ----------

I would not be so certain...... One of the clubs I belonged to had a Match focussed committee with a distrust of carp fishing and pike angling. Grudgingly, one lake is open to night fish... but when the bailiff cut in another swim for a bivvie..... he resigned over the incident.... the comittee were furious that they had lost 'another one of there swims'. (The implication being that if someone fishes an overnighter, its not available to someone fishing a pole + seatbox).

Sadly, the live bait ban stands to this day

Some clubs are looking for excuses to limit access to water overnight in order to discourage a certain type of angler.... There are plenty of 'day only' anglers for defecate and leave rubbish:wh

Sadly this is a good (or bad) example of clubs being hijacked by specific factions. It is more common than you would imagine. It is usually the result of not only forceful individuals who want to bang the drum for their branch of the sport, but also an apathetic approach by others who for whatever reason allow that to happen.

 

[sam vimes]

Is it too much to expect people to behave in a normal and socially acceptable manner in the first place?

The fact that there is a problem in some quarters and we are discussing it rather suggests it is too much to expect from some. It would be nice if it wasn't the case though.

The root cause of such revolting behaviours sits in our wider society.

There's no doubting that's true but, knowing that and accepting that doesn't help to alleviate any problems. I rather suspect that angling, and the disapproval of other anglers, does have a positive influence on some that may otherwise go through life not caring much about their environment. It's not likely to go further than that though.

 

[maceo]

The cheaper the fishing, the bigger the problem.
.......
The better the availability of day tickets, the bigger the problem.

Sam - with these two you're implying again that less well off people are the cause of the problem and in my experience it's just not true.

The first poster on this thread specifically said that the problem he described was caused by those who had not only purchased the club book, but even had paid extra for night fishing.

It's not fair to demonise less well off people. Often it's those 'masters of the universe' with loaded wallets who don't have a care in the world when it comes to polluting and littering.

Have you never seen the rubbish that gets casually chucked out of the windows of the biggest, finest and most expensive 4x4 monster truck windows?

 

[mark brailsford 2]

While on Manchester Piccadilly station a few weeks ago I over heard a lady telling two squaddies (in uniform) to stop smoking on the platform, They just laughed in her face and told her to f@@k off! If this is the attitude of our armed forces then what chance have we got?
Incidentally I later told my friend Paul who has just come out of the royal marines after nearly 30 years and he told me that if the woman had reported them they would have been severely dealt with, that's not the point though is it?

 

[sam vimes]

Sam - with these two you're implying again that less well off people are the cause of the problem and in my experience it's just not true.

The first poster on this thread specifically said that the problem he described was caused by those who had not only purchased the club book, but even had paid extra for night fishing.

It's not fair to demonise less well off people. Often it's those 'masters of the universe' with loaded wallets who don't have a care in the world when it comes to polluting and littering.

Have you never seen the rubbish that gets casually chucked out of the windows of the biggest, finest and most expensive 4x4 monster truck windows?

Take that whacking great left wing chip off your shoulder for just a few moments. I'm not implying that the less well off are the problem at all. All I'm suggesting is that the cheaper the venue, the greater the number of folks are likely to be attracted to it. Therefore there's a greater chance of the inconsiderate minority being amongst the horde. I make no correlation between wealth and litter. I'm not demonizing anyone.

I'd also suggest that if you have to pay a decent amount, regardless of your financial status, you are more likely to look after something, especially if there are repurcussions for not doing so. The other side of the coin is the greater the cost, the less people are attracted (regardless of their wealth). Therefore there's less chance of that inconsiderate minority being amongst their limited number.

 

[mark brailsford 2]

I think I have mentioned it on here before,
A friend of mine was fishing on the river Rother in Chesterfield a few years ago when he was ''challenged'' by two guy's in cammo gear, they told him in no uncertain terms that the river was their's and he had better ''go'' he quickly packed up and has he left the thugs verbally abused him in a very aggressive manner. Now Joe is a big chap, but he told me that he was petrified!

 

[Gav Barbus]

Some people are just dirty orrible cretins basically Mark.
Medevil minds in the twenty first century they would happily throw cac out of their windows and live in it .
Interestingly I was reading a BB book a while back and he was commenting on rubbish left from anglers brown paper wrappings and fag butts I think,nothings sacred it seems.

 

[skullsat]

i always carry sweetcorn,once empty becomes my ashtray and rubbish tin,which i then throw away at the end of the session,some people are inconsiderate when leaving their pegs,it only takes a moment to clear up afterwards,but there again some treat there homes the same.

 

[mark brailsford 2]

i always carry sweetcorn,once empty becomes my ashtray and rubbish tin,which i then throw away at the end of the session,some people are inconsiderate when leaving their pegs,it only takes a moment to clear up afterwards,but there again some treat there homes the same.

The two clubs that I am a member have got a ''no tins'' and ''no alcohol'' rule which is good but as I said the night crew in one club are abusing the system!

 

[terry m]

There's no doubting that's true but, knowing that and accepting that doesn't help to alleviate any problems.

True, but the point inferred was that it is of little help to try to fix immediate causes by - for example despatching legions of bailiffs - if that will not fix the underlying cause, which is sadly we tolerate far too much scum, low life and free loaders in our society who believe that they can behave in any way they choose with no fear of recourse.

Progress - pah!!

 

[mark brailsford 2]

One thing I have been thinking about is how many Bailiffs actually approach anyone when they are patrolling on their own? I can remember not so long ago a story about a guy being thrown in to a canal by some EE guy's! surely a lot of these volunteers must really have to think about there own safety when on the banks?

 

[maceo]

Skullsat - I also use the sweetcorn tin/ashtray!

I always take a carrier bag with me too. Hook it over one of the chair legs at the back and all the rubbish goes in there, includind the ashtray at the end of the session.

Tie a knot in the top, stick it in the bag to take home and it's all done.

I can't see what these people find so difficult.

 

[Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC)]

I can't see what these people find so difficult.

carrying a turd home

 

[Ray Roberts]

carrying a turd home

If you bag it like you would with a dogs turd then you have a free handwarmer for cold winter days.

Maceo & Skullsat, I don't know what club you guys belong to, but possesion of a tin can will see you relieved of your membership on the club waters I use.

 

[The bad one]

One thing I have been thinking about is how many Bailiffs actually approach anyone when they are patrolling on their own? I can remember not so long ago a story about a guy being thrown in to a canal by some EE guy's! surely a lot of these volunteers must really have to think about there own safety when on the banks?

It's about training Mark and tactics to employ (for obvious reasons I'm not going to go into them on a open site) Only once had a problem, remote spot on the river, where the poacher got a bit stroppy. Bet he didn't bank on the copper waiting for him on the car park when he returned to his car.

Surprise, surprise, he's never been back

 

[terry m]

It's about training Mark and tactics to employ

How many clubs or syndicates deliver training - or even guidelines to their bailiffs? Very few I would wager.