Deanos
Well-known member
In that case Ed, ?Chunky Plumpers? shall be in a plain brown package ready for disspatch!..grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
B
Budgie Burgess
Guest
I do agree to a certain extent with what Ron says."Within" fly fishing there is very little snobbery.As Ron says the average trout angler will share information on the "taking" method far more readily tan most "specialist" coarse anglers.It is certainly easy enough for most to get into now.As mentioned the gear can be a lot cheaper than coarse taclke,there are no bait costs and many (even day ticket)waters compare favourabley price wise.
That said there is still an element of snobbery when game anglers look outside of their sport.A lot of this is selfishness in that they want just their chosen type of fishing available for just them.......but we dont really have to look to deeply to find this also within coarse fishing do we?
All this IMO has been the case since the reservoir and still waters became available for trouting back in the early 70's.
So in general I do agree with Ron!
Kevin I disagree with (in general at least) what you say but enjoy reading alternative veiws.It doesnt matter if I think that your veiw is wrong,it doesnt matter if I think your opinion has been formed without much knowledge.What matters is that you have for reasons only known to you formed this opinion.By airing it you have given others a chance to disagree and try to change your opinion based on their experiences.
Ron may not have been particularly "tactfull" when he did this! but youve been a member here long enough Kevin to know that no matter what else he has done in his very full life attending The South African University of Diplomacey is one of them!
So stop spitting your dummy out and if you stop contributing here I for one will be comming looking for you!
I (and Im sure many others) would miss your veiws just as much as we would miss Ron's.
I would also like to say that I agree with what others have said that Ron gets a lot of piss taking,along with the respect he has earned but Ive never yet seen him not take it in good spirit (and indeed in good spirit is what its given in)and therefore John really was a bit out of order.
That said there is still an element of snobbery when game anglers look outside of their sport.A lot of this is selfishness in that they want just their chosen type of fishing available for just them.......but we dont really have to look to deeply to find this also within coarse fishing do we?
All this IMO has been the case since the reservoir and still waters became available for trouting back in the early 70's.
So in general I do agree with Ron!
Kevin I disagree with (in general at least) what you say but enjoy reading alternative veiws.It doesnt matter if I think that your veiw is wrong,it doesnt matter if I think your opinion has been formed without much knowledge.What matters is that you have for reasons only known to you formed this opinion.By airing it you have given others a chance to disagree and try to change your opinion based on their experiences.
Ron may not have been particularly "tactfull" when he did this! but youve been a member here long enough Kevin to know that no matter what else he has done in his very full life attending The South African University of Diplomacey is one of them!
So stop spitting your dummy out and if you stop contributing here I for one will be comming looking for you!
I (and Im sure many others) would miss your veiws just as much as we would miss Ron's.
I would also like to say that I agree with what others have said that Ron gets a lot of piss taking,along with the respect he has earned but Ive never yet seen him not take it in good spirit (and indeed in good spirit is what its given in)and therefore John really was a bit out of order.
R
Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)
Guest
Yes I did over-react.
And apologies to all for this.
But the presence or otherwise of snobbery in flyfishing is a subject that has been close to my heart for many years.
However I certainly hope that those outside fly fishing who have maybe considered taking it up, yet have thought that this branch of our sport is elitist in some way, will think again.
As Budgie says, the opening of the reservoirs, especially Grafham in the late 60s put fly fishing for trout well within the reach of the ordinary person. In recent years, especially in the North, many rivers are now running cleaner and stocks of wild brown trout are thriving. The Upper River Don above Sheffield is a typical example.
In terms of river fishing, and trout fishing in general, there is a huge north/ south divide. Whereas I, and many others who live where I do, can get on cheap high quality still waters and rivers too, the angler in London has to travel long distances on crowded roads, and then pay an extortionate sum for a few hours fishing. There are those who can easily afford to do this. There are many others who cannot.
And the last thing I ever want is for Kevin to stop writing for FM.
I've enjoyed his pieces to much for that.
And apologies to all for this.
But the presence or otherwise of snobbery in flyfishing is a subject that has been close to my heart for many years.
However I certainly hope that those outside fly fishing who have maybe considered taking it up, yet have thought that this branch of our sport is elitist in some way, will think again.
As Budgie says, the opening of the reservoirs, especially Grafham in the late 60s put fly fishing for trout well within the reach of the ordinary person. In recent years, especially in the North, many rivers are now running cleaner and stocks of wild brown trout are thriving. The Upper River Don above Sheffield is a typical example.
In terms of river fishing, and trout fishing in general, there is a huge north/ south divide. Whereas I, and many others who live where I do, can get on cheap high quality still waters and rivers too, the angler in London has to travel long distances on crowded roads, and then pay an extortionate sum for a few hours fishing. There are those who can easily afford to do this. There are many others who cannot.
And the last thing I ever want is for Kevin to stop writing for FM.
I've enjoyed his pieces to much for that.
C
Chris Bishop
Guest
Kevin I hope you don't stop writing stuff. Your columns are some of the most popular talking points on here, a lot of people obviously enjoy them.
How about we leave this one here..? Think it's had its day.
How about we leave this one here..? Think it's had its day.
K
Kevin Perkins * * * * * * *
Guest
Chris - sorry, I haven?t been able to follow this debate too closely, and whilst not wanting to prolong it any further, I did want the chance to make a couple of further comments.
Ron, I accept that you may have been a little rash in your responses, although at no time did I mention the word ?snob? in anything that I wrote, certain other member?s comments on the topic have made reference to that kind of attitude amongst fly/trout fishermen. With regard to costs, whilst there may well be plentiful, affordable trout fishing in certain areas of the country (particularly ?up north?) but down here in the Home Counties that isn?t the case, where a ?25/?30 - 4 fish day ticket is about the norm. Your ?2.50 per day trout fishing seems a positive bargain, but am I right to assume that a season ticket has been purchased to effect such a low price? In which case an amount of money was required ?up front?, which may well be beyond the means of many thinking of starting the sport
Mark, of course I agree that any fishery has to be run on a sound commercial footing, but we do have the situation here in Milton Keynes where our local club has a fantastic and diverse amount of water on it?s books, but no affordable fly/trout fishing is made available, although if you want to take up a minority sport like golf, we have two municipal (and therefore subsidised) courses for you to play on, if membership of the more prestigious clubs in the is beyond your reach. We had a very nice catch and release trout fishery down the road at Tingrith, but that has gone over to coarse now, so opportunities to fly fish around here are limited by your ability to pay, I?m afraid
Graham, as you know, I am always going on about the lack of response, good or bad, to articles on FM (not just mine) but whilst constructive criticism is to be welcomed, dismissive, almost derisory comment is not, bearing in mind that I still regard myself as a rank amateur at the contributing lark. Rather than rush the 170+ articles (Mark Wintle will know the actual count!) perhaps I should have taken more time to distill down those ramblings into more coherent, cogent pieces of angling journalism, that would certainly reduce the chances of me proffering ill-informed opinions based on my lack of knowledge, as was so succinctly put in one posting.
Over the years I have tried to bring other facets into the articles with diversions such as Donald and Damien, the Silt/Walters letters, and of course, the delectable Amanda. When I can?t find the motivation to write something ?amusing? I then attempt to cobble together a piece which is meant as nothing more than a comment on a situation, as I see it, and it is this form of article which I appear to be deficient in the necessary skills. At the moment, I don?t happen to have my ?amusing? head on, so it would appear better to write nothing, rather that churn out something just for the sake of it. If this appeared as a ?spit the dummy out? moment, then I must aplolgise for that.
This week?s article is already written and will be sent over soon, and I am afraid that once again it is of the ?comment? variety. After that, I will confine any further submissions to those than can be loosely regarded as mildly amusing
Regards
Kevin
Ron, I accept that you may have been a little rash in your responses, although at no time did I mention the word ?snob? in anything that I wrote, certain other member?s comments on the topic have made reference to that kind of attitude amongst fly/trout fishermen. With regard to costs, whilst there may well be plentiful, affordable trout fishing in certain areas of the country (particularly ?up north?) but down here in the Home Counties that isn?t the case, where a ?25/?30 - 4 fish day ticket is about the norm. Your ?2.50 per day trout fishing seems a positive bargain, but am I right to assume that a season ticket has been purchased to effect such a low price? In which case an amount of money was required ?up front?, which may well be beyond the means of many thinking of starting the sport
Mark, of course I agree that any fishery has to be run on a sound commercial footing, but we do have the situation here in Milton Keynes where our local club has a fantastic and diverse amount of water on it?s books, but no affordable fly/trout fishing is made available, although if you want to take up a minority sport like golf, we have two municipal (and therefore subsidised) courses for you to play on, if membership of the more prestigious clubs in the is beyond your reach. We had a very nice catch and release trout fishery down the road at Tingrith, but that has gone over to coarse now, so opportunities to fly fish around here are limited by your ability to pay, I?m afraid
Graham, as you know, I am always going on about the lack of response, good or bad, to articles on FM (not just mine) but whilst constructive criticism is to be welcomed, dismissive, almost derisory comment is not, bearing in mind that I still regard myself as a rank amateur at the contributing lark. Rather than rush the 170+ articles (Mark Wintle will know the actual count!) perhaps I should have taken more time to distill down those ramblings into more coherent, cogent pieces of angling journalism, that would certainly reduce the chances of me proffering ill-informed opinions based on my lack of knowledge, as was so succinctly put in one posting.
Over the years I have tried to bring other facets into the articles with diversions such as Donald and Damien, the Silt/Walters letters, and of course, the delectable Amanda. When I can?t find the motivation to write something ?amusing? I then attempt to cobble together a piece which is meant as nothing more than a comment on a situation, as I see it, and it is this form of article which I appear to be deficient in the necessary skills. At the moment, I don?t happen to have my ?amusing? head on, so it would appear better to write nothing, rather that churn out something just for the sake of it. If this appeared as a ?spit the dummy out? moment, then I must aplolgise for that.
This week?s article is already written and will be sent over soon, and I am afraid that once again it is of the ?comment? variety. After that, I will confine any further submissions to those than can be loosely regarded as mildly amusing
Regards
Kevin
P
Paul Clarke
Guest
Kevin ,continue writing whatever it is that takes your fancy but just add a couple of pics of busty women in skimpy bikini's and no-one will even notice whats in your article !!!
personally , i enjoy all your 'ramblings' .
personally , i enjoy all your 'ramblings' .
B
BAZ (Angel of the North) aka Fester
Guest
That's it then. I'll do the technical stuff. (o
GrahamM
Managing Editor
- Joined
- Feb 23, 1999
- Messages
- 9,773
- Reaction score
- 1
Kevin, that's the trouble with opinion pieces, people expect you to be right and some get angry when you're not.
There are three attitudes you can take.
The first is be sure of your opinion and be prepared to defend it through hell and high water.
The second is to be prepared to climb down if someone convinces you you're wrong.
And the third is not to give a flying **** whether you're right or not and have fun with the replies.
Whichever one you subscribe to (and it's your choice every time) you then just get on with the next piece and keep having fun!
I know that all sounds very flippant, but like I've just said to someone in a private email:
It's only fishing.
There are three attitudes you can take.
The first is be sure of your opinion and be prepared to defend it through hell and high water.
The second is to be prepared to climb down if someone convinces you you're wrong.
And the third is not to give a flying **** whether you're right or not and have fun with the replies.
Whichever one you subscribe to (and it's your choice every time) you then just get on with the next piece and keep having fun!
I know that all sounds very flippant, but like I've just said to someone in a private email:
It's only fishing.
Neil Maidment
Moderator
I guess 100+ posts proves there is some passion out there!
Kevin, keep writing and publishing to this site. Your articles are well written, sometimes amusing, sometimes opinionated but always worth a read.
Kevin, keep writing and publishing to this site. Your articles are well written, sometimes amusing, sometimes opinionated but always worth a read.
Deanos
Well-known member
I am from Yorkshire and thick as two short planks!
P
paul williams 2
Guest
Rons's also from Yorkshire 
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B
Budgie Burgess
Guest
Kev dont ever "distill" your ramblings! its the way you write it that makes it so readable.Anything that promotes thinking through discussion is good.
Er that said I would also apreciate some more pictures of busty women in your articles....preferably ones with "spaniels ears" boobs and unusual piercings.
Er that said I would also apreciate some more pictures of busty women in your articles....preferably ones with "spaniels ears" boobs and unusual piercings.
Deanos
Well-known member
Budgie!?my aunty ?fat Sandra? says after fifteen kids, five minutes with a staple gun
and fifteen pints of lager (that?s for her..not you!), she could be just up your street.
Being a brickies labourer has kept her in good shape, all apart from her face, it makes you want to shove a suppository into her mouth when she smiles!
Don?t forget now?she does run the ?Sex and Pies? chat line for all you lonely anglers in your biveys! Ron says its worth every penny (he likes her to say she is tying him up with fluorocarbon and spanking him with one of those really common anglers feeder rods!!!).
and fifteen pints of lager (that?s for her..not you!), she could be just up your street.
Being a brickies labourer has kept her in good shape, all apart from her face, it makes you want to shove a suppository into her mouth when she smiles!
Don?t forget now?she does run the ?Sex and Pies? chat line for all you lonely anglers in your biveys! Ron says its worth every penny (he likes her to say she is tying him up with fluorocarbon and spanking him with one of those really common anglers feeder rods!!!).
B
Budgie Burgess
Guest
"Sex and PIES!" Shes the one for me mate! erm er I dont suppose youve got any "artisticly taken" umm "revealing but tastefull" photographs er of the Pies have you?
Deanos
Well-known member
I think this is what you are after Budgie, they do mail order in plain brown paper packages...always pays to be desceet in such matters as these, if you are a real man then pies really do matter!
http://www.yorkshirefirst.co.uk/denbydale/
http://www.yorkshirefirst.co.uk/denbydale/