Bias against match anglers

[Graham Whatmore]

Where is this 15lb rated pole you are talking about? Poles are generally rated up to the size of elastic they can take not by breaking strain in my experience, even then the fact that it is rated up to say a 20 elastic doesn't mean it won't break in inexperienced hands.

The average match angler understands this perfectly of course but a lot of match fisheries have a periodic clear out of the really big carp because they aren't 'proper' match fish, presumably they sell them on or restock them into one of their own specimen pools if they have one. I knew a few well known match fisheries who had this policy and a match angler would rather not be playing a double figure carp on a pole when he could land two or three of half the size in the same amount of time. Having said all that a pole in half decent hands will play and land a double figure quite easily and most match anglers have done this more than a few times. One thing you can't do with a pole is haul them in, the elastic won't allow you to do that so that argument is a non starter but it is to the anglers benefit as well as the carps if he lands them quickly and efficiently.

Given his opinions I wonder just how much experience RM has of pole fishing, I suspect next to none but I might be wrong of course. If that is the case he is commenting on something he has never done and therefore has no real knowledge of.

 

[The Scarlet Maggot]

Graham some of my fondest memories are fishing with a pole in fact, many years ago, back in the 1980’s, think I was about fourteen maybe fifteen, I left the match and liberated my fishing in some respects, I went back to the fundamentals, a stick with line tied on the end, I bought a Bennets of Sheffield pole kit. And for few years I principally mastered the basics, and soon invested in bit better gear (nicking milk money on my paper round). One of my most vivid memories was when me and a mate used take a bus from the East of London up to Beccels visiting his grandparents, highlight was, well apart from the odd hand job from the local slappers, we would fish the River Waveny, wonderful mixed bags, all on the pole, I still fantasize about returning there one day, it was about as purist as you can get. I loved it, and that feeling still haunts me today, I’ve even considered using a pole when going after crucians, still might.

What I object to is the more modern match angling, factory fishing, bagging carp, distasteful and aggressive names of items of tackle, chasing fame and pound notes with keepnets full of semi tame pond fish. MIDDY SHOCK STIKK, the tacklebarn ltd fishing shop plymouth - The Tackle Barn - Leading suppliers of Fishing Tac As I’ve said before where will it all end, how quick and effective must match anglers get at fishing uniformly dug ponds stocked to brim. It’s like some bizarre set up for male bravado, I don’t understand, it seems the challenge is not the fish, but the competition. I just can’t get my head round it, isn’t angling for me. And I find its evolution scary, and I know for a fact there exists some degree of paranoia around other anglers, even some match anglers.

I forgive you for your hostility, it’s not always a newbie turns up so opinionated, an unknown entity seemingly out for a fight, it’s not the case Graham. I didn’t mean to vandalize your thread!

 

[slime monster]

I also am not a fan of big weight Carp matches but that is the way it has gone and it is here to stay, good luck to them if that is what they want to do...I just walked away from it .

 

[redalert06]

I fish matches but kind of agree with red maggots points, proclamations of 500lb match records on the angling times sicken me. fu***ng joke when you hear it was a ten peg knockup that would barely be called a sweepstake let alone a match a few years ago.

I also see the original point of the thread, this forum is a bit cliquey and snobbish towards general specimen angling - this is my perception as a new member - if the mods and admins are happy with this then fair enough - there are other more match orientated angling forums.

 

[Bluenose]

....it seems the challenge is not the fish, but the competition.....

That probably sums up a lot (although not all) commercial based match angling.

Tewton, it's an open forum mate, if you aren't happy with something, want to give a certain discipline some more air time, or want to right a wrong, just start a new thread or several threads on the subjects you feel are not part of the clique.

 

[Steve Spiller]

I also see the original point of the thread, this forum is a bit cliquey and snobbish towards general specimen angling - this is my perception as a new member - if the mods and admins are happy with this then fair enough - there are other more match orientated angling forums.

Tewton, I think I can see where you're coming from, but I don't think there are a lot of match anglers on FM? Or maybe they just don't post about it? It is a shame really, FM is all about all aspects of angling. The carp section is very quiet too? Not cos it's winter, just in general.

I still think RM has got a raw deal here, you asked a question Graham and RM answered you and he got jumped on....

I too don't like the margin poles, it's a bit like fishing under the boards at Clattercote. Normal poles are brilliant though and very skillful, the presentation achieved with a float is second to none. I don't however like the 'up in the water' pellet method. As far as I'm concerned there is no skill in that whatsoever.

But that's just my opinion...

 

[alan whittington]

As I’ve said before where will it all end, how quick and effective must match anglers get at fishing uniformly dug ponds stocked to brim. It’s like some bizarre set up for male bravado, I don’t understand, it seems the challenge is not the fish, but the competition. I just can’t get my head round it, isn’t angling for me. And I find its evolution scary, and I know for a fact there exists some degree of paranoia around other anglers, even some match anglers.

RM,i accept your opinions,right or misguided they are your right to hold,one thing that you havnt grasped is that most angling is competitive to varying degrees,as a laugh with your mates or purely to achieve your aim to fool and land your fish/es,your statement of what the challenge is,is where it falls down,because being a good MA you are being competitive on mainly three angles 1/ the swim you have drawn(good bad or indifferent,2/the fish within the peg and which method you choose to maximise the final weight,3/ firstly the anglers on next pegs,then overall position(and whether you assess its possible to frame,or win the section).Match fishing can be very complicated,even on small venues and these extremely powerful margin poles(many are not so powerful),are limited in effectiveness,so cannot normally be relied upon to win from every peg.If you know people who match fish you will find that majority of even 15 peg affairs dont win often,because the quality angler susses out his peg and shines through,an interesting debate all the same.:w

 

[quickcedo]

I have mentioned before that I live on a narrow boat on the canal. I watch many types of fishermen from pleasure and match to speci hunters. I can honestly say the only difference between them all is the fact that the match anglers are the only ones to smash the bushes and reed beds to bits in order to create swims where all the others appear to poke a rod between. Now I personally couldn't give a rat's ar*e what style of fishing you do as long as due care is taken of the fish, but wilfull bankside distruction brings the whole sport into disrepute. The worst bit is the damage is done very quietly the night before so they know it's wrong!

 

[Graham Whatmore]

Why all this talk about carp and commercials? There are thousands of anglers that match fish canals every weekend, some fish non carp pools and some fish rivers and most use poles. A lot of commercials are switching away from carp now as well, preferring chub and barbel with a good sprinkling of tench, roach and even ide are becoming a very common stocking, no 100lb nets on those types lakes.

 

[Steve Spiller]

Tis true Graham, but why did the match anglers leave the rivers? You gotta be honest mate, it was for almost guaranteed catches and big ones too!

Okay some river matches still happen, but in general they are held on commercials where blanks are very rare. Dunno what the river match scene is like where you are, but here it is all but gone....I can remember when (god I feel old now!) the rivers were a 'no go' area to pleasure anglers on a weekend. The BA used to hold Nationals from Bath to Bristol, 300 pegs plus!

Like I said, I have nothing against match angling, it happened to me too. There are certain aspects of match angling that I don't like though, but I have nothing against match anglers, it's a good crack, but some take it too far.....

 

[Bluenose]

but some take it too far.....

We are all guilty of that though Steve, no exceptions!

 

[Steve Spiller]

Moi???

Give me a private bo**okin if I have EC? I'm big enough for that, blimey, the Boss did me a massive one once and I deserved it!

When I'm in BB I rip the pi$$, when I'm not, I try to be sensible and talk fishing. Tell me if I've not EC....

As regards the match scene, I have been there and got out.........

 

[Graham Whatmore]

Canal match angling is still massive in this country especially in the Midlands and to a slightly lesser degree in the north but very popular nevertheless. You should try sitting for five hours in the freezing winter on a gin clear canal working your cobblers off for a few tiny gudgeon or tiny roach but that is what match angling is about, it is the competition that attracts a certain type of angler, it certainly isn't for the money because you are lucky if you cover your costs even if you win. All right it isn't for everyone we know that but neither is any other branch of angling we all do what gives us the most pleasure, it is the very reason why we fish.

 

[Bluenose]

Moi???

Give me a private bo**okin if I have EC? I'm big enough for that, blimey, the Boss did me a massive one once and I deserved it!

When I'm in BB I rip the pi$$, when I'm not, I try to be sensible and talk fishing. Tell me if I've not EC....

As regards the match scene, I have been there and got out.........

Bo11ocking? What? I'm taking part in a thread and I'm agreeing with you, sort of.

I am merely saying that anglers of all disciplines have at some point probably taken it 'too far' not just match anglers.

I think each angling discpline has it's own little particular quirks, all different but all potentially taking it too far in their own way.

The carp anglers here will say they've had a rough ride during times past due to antics of some, and we laughingly refer to 'the circus' yet we know they exist and will chase named fish.

 

[The Scarlet Maggot]

On the subject of carp anglers, I do find some of their practices disturbing as well and hard to understand really. One example of many I have is a mature lake full of big carp, some very big. There wild fish who feed happily on sweetcorn, pellets, boilies you name it, a scattering in the margins or in hole in weeds brings a few carp in. So why the need to introduce 40kilo of boilies on occasions throughout the year? Fatten already huge carp? Give them a dependence on a particular food? Why **** about with nature, why not just be satisfied with the cards were dealt and enjoy the natural world as it is? Why must anglers feel compelled to alter stuff? Isn’t it hugely damaging to angling in the long run? Plus I can’t see the sport in catching artificially fattened chemically dependent fish. A traditionalist no, realist yes, I don’t buy into the whole rose tinted Polaroid’s view of angling either, I just think if we are going to get our sport from nature we should respect it better, on many levels.

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There seems to be a growing number of bizarre practices in angling going on and at the same time we bang on about fish welfare! What a hypocritical crock of ****. Surly the best fish welfare and future for angling is accepting what we do, “catching fish”, and not preach fish welfare like guilty Catholics, but change a few controversial or potentially damaging aspects of our sport? Just an opinion!

---------- Post added at 01:47 ---------- Previous post was at 01:38 ----------

Recently I got criticized for laying a tench on soaking wet leaf mulch by other anglers; they couldn’t tell me why it was wrong, just that I “should” use an unhooking mat. It’s that kind of thing that gets me, total *******s!

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---------- Post added at 02:03 ---------- Previous post was at 01:50 ----------

You know it wouldn’t surprise me, if in 10 years you could send your GPS coordinates and location direct to a bait company and get your boilies dropped aerially, just call in an air strike, carpet bomb the lake, save time, and super fresh!!

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The whole thing does have that military feel to it after all.

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Bait boat battle ships with delkim jamming devices, and anti bait plane surface to air missiles to take each other’s pre baiting campaigns out. Mind you im not saying we should all fish like Cuban farmers either…

 

[dezza]

Why the need to introduce X kg of boilies?

Simple; the boilie industry and its vested interests. In much the same way that the fossil fuel industry guards its vested interests and to hell with the pollution and climate change they cause.

Have any of you bothered to pause for a moment to examine the size and influence the boilie and pellet industry has on angling? Have a look in any tackle shop these days and see which baits are being sold. Pellets and boilies sell in far greater numbers and value than maggots, worms, casters, sweetcorn and hemp - don't they?

Read any major bait suppliers annual glossy catalogue and you will see baits that are being pushed by the sponsored consultants. You certainly will not see these consultants pushing worms, maggots or bread! And of course Joe Soap is influenced.

The pushing of cheap baits such as bread, wheat (a brilliant bait) and sweetcorn is not good for the bait trade. Any magazine which pushes stewed wheat for example is not going to be very popular with the boilie and pellet people who could withdraw their advertising!

But what of the pellet and boilie industry? Where do they get a lot of their ingredients to produce pellets and boilies?

They get them from fishmeal which is composed in the main from krill and small pelagic fish such as anchovies and pilchards. These species are harvested in vast amounts from the oceans of the world and used to make pellets and boilies which feed millions of match carp in artificial puddles throughout the UK, which are caught and released with a monotonous regularity

Somehow the flawed ethics in this cycle sticks in my gullet.

Does it yours?

 

[noknot]

Maybe a new thread should be started, something along the lines of Gut bucket Carp and how the Carp angler has emptied the sea?

 

[captain carrott]

Maybe a new thread should be started, something along the lines of Gut bucket Carp and how the Carp angler has emptied the sea?

not really though in reality have they.

the ammount of fishmeals used in the bait industry pales into insignificance to that used to provide farmed salmon and trout, whether they be for consumption at table or in the trouts case for sticking in a pond so some one can fling some fluff at em.

combined with land based farming methods using them as fertiliser you have the real causes of the decimation of the bottom end of the seas food chain.

 

[Graham Marsden]

"Maybe a new thread should be started, something along the lines of Gut bucket Carp and how the Carp angler has emptied the sea? "

Hang on! Maybe we should knock a different species and those who fish for them for a change.

Carp anglers, commercials and match anglers have been done to death. Let's knock something and someone else just for the variety.

Maybe we could praise something. Now that would be a change.

 

[noknot]

not really though in reality have they.

the ammount of fishmeals used in the bait industry pales into insignificance to that used to provide farmed salmon and trout, whether they be for consumption at table or in the trouts case for sticking in a pond so some one can fling some fluff at em.

combined with land based farming methods using them as fertiliser you have the real causes of the decimation of the bottom end of the seas food chain.

Indeed CC, also in animal feed to Cat food!

---------- Post added at 11:44 ---------- Previous post was at 11:42 ----------

"Maybe a new thread should be started, something along the lines of Gut bucket Carp and how the Carp angler has emptied the sea? "

Hang on! Maybe we should knock a different species and those who fish for them for a change.

Carp anglers, commercials and match anglers have been done to death. Let's knock something and someone else just for the variety.

Maybe we could praise something. Now that would be a change.

Yes a plesant change Graham