Improve your coarse fishing advertising, errr... i mean magazine

[Paul Boote]

The old In Crowd would understand what I wrote only too well, Neil; feel the pain of an uncompromising truth elegantly delivered, flinch, then retreat even further into their now Unapproachable Backwoods Well-pensioned Respectability (only to be seen at the next Game Fair amongst - and offered a complimentary drinkies or six by - others of their own kind).

 

[dannytaylor]

If you think our mags are bad for adverts take a look at the American muskie magazines

Same old thread if you dont like it dont buy it

 

[chav professor]

Decided to go fishing today, so I approached my wife who smelt beautiful in her Channel No 5 perfume, Mmmm. Then for breakfast I needed something wholesome to give me the energy I needed to keep me fishing at peak performance all day - for me its Frosties(c) - I just new I'd be leaving the house feeling GGGGRRRRRReeeeaaaat!

The Vauxhall Combo van sitting stylishly outside on the road (sh@t - shouldn't have said that - more intelligent readers might assume I didn't say driveway because it leaks oil).

Because I want to be able to be 'RINGING THE CHANGES' (copyright statement IYCF) I have purchased a...................

_____________________________

BTW, apart from the advertorial style of journalism, IYCF, whilst I will never be a subsciber of any magazine, is an excellent vehical for the new and improving angler. I find it difficuly not to see something of interest/learn something new when I have read a copy. Can't forget - whenever you see an Allcocks Lucky Strike advertiesd on fleabay, it is always accompanied by the statement 'as used by Chris Yates' on Passion for Angling. Untill you know what works for you, you are greatful for all the help and advise you can get regarding tackle, bait etc.

Then you can get synical like me and try and catch fish in the least comercial way possible. I have a shedful of stuff bought and never used from the past - oddly enough, I used to buy more stuff when i was fishing less and being inspired more by reading about stuff - Does that make sense?

I fish two or three times a week and just replace the few bits of equipment i actually use and feel comfortable with....... I suppose I am saving money....

 

[Matthew Nightingale (ACA)]

I do take notice of the T&S reviews. I have been thinking of buying a 15' salmon rod for a while so would go to the lengths of buying an old copy of T&S if they had done one of their review pieces.

All that the coarse mags are useful for is understanding what's out there. Thereafter I would have to ask around and rely on a trusted tackle dealer. That and buying from a manufacturer with a reputation for quality.

That said I do buy the AT and TCF (because I had a subscription to CF). I buy the AT because I'm on the committee of my club and it does provide some coverage of what's happening in my area. TCF (and IYCF) do sometime have some valuable articles on technique etc. I also buy them (and watch fishing porn) because I get such little time on the bank.

 

[Bob Roberts]

It's nice to cast one's bread upon the water and see what bites but by heck, they're playing finicky today. :wh

Surely we should see a magazine for what it actually is rather than demand the magazine changes its entire style to suit the individual?

I could sympathise with someone who's saying, 'I've bought it for five years but wish this (or that) was changed'. Or, 'I don't like the reviews,' or the letter page or whatever.

What I find really pointless is someone saying, 'Harrumph, never buy it, never would, it's rubbish! Not like the old days, old boy..., bl**dy pole fishing and commercials, adverts, same old, same old, the blaggard once crossed my path on a dark night, etc.'

Look, the magazine isn't for you. It's not aimed at you, any more than a magazine on cross stitch knitting or thermo neuclear dynamics. Nor would it be any good if your bent was to dap live mayflies using horsehair line and a tonkin pole?

Magazines each have their own identity and long may that continue. They satisfy their own niche.

Diversity should not be discouraged just because you personally would prefer something different. Especially if you never purchase the publication in the first place. The stakeholders are those who do enjoy the existing format and buy into the philosophy in their tens of thousands.

Would you sacrifice their needs and interests for your own vision of what is good and so clearly not being delivered (to you).

The Angling Star sells a meagre 3,000 copies or so. CF went skint because not enough folk bought copies to keep it alive. Same story with the CEMEX mag. Shouldn't that tell you something...?

If you feel there's a gap in the market for an 'up yer own bum' magazine then what are you waiting for, go forth and grab that opportunity to make your fortune. 'One day Rodney we'll be millionaires...' is the phrase I think you're looking for.

Meanwhile, Improve will cater to itsestablished audience, secure in the knowledge that it will remain the biggest selling angling magazine in the whole of Europe. Yes, the adverts in it are very expensive but they're command such rates because the manufacturers want to be in there. If they were cheaper there would be many more adverts.

Clearly it works for them.

What you do get consistently in Improve is the best photography in coarse angling today. It's a beautiful, glossy product, well written in a style the audience understands. What is there to knock?

May as well start complaining that What Car or Computer Active has no features on 15 foot salmon rod comparisons, or best flies to use in March, or catches I made from waters I'm not going to disclose...

Bob Roberts
Bob Roberts - Fishing information for the complete angler

 

[chav professor]

Hi Bob,

Your comments are fair, i get the feeling that any publisher is struggling to survive at the moment and adverts and advertorials are the price we pay if we purchase a magazine.

IYCF is glossy, I bought a copy recently and was really impressed with the photography - plus its always nice to hear words of wisdom from Matt hayes and co. Indeed, IYCF informed me and I would follow the advice and indeed caught Chub for the first time from my little river. this in turn became an all consuming passion.

Funnily enough, if you follow posts long enough on this platform, you will soon identify that anglers are very tackle focussed. i.e. 'I'm looking for a rod - any ideas or recomendations'....etc......

With time being the limiting factor for most anglers, Magazines are selling the dream........ Reading about the experiences of others fishing beautiful locations can take you miles away from the office during a tea break........

It did this for me for years, and yes I bought loads of guff in case i actually got the time to go and use some of it.m No harm in that I supose.

 

[Steve Pope]

Hi All,

Well there is a new fishing magazine on its way, will be interesting to see how it fares. Will be on sale in mid March from all the main outlets.

No advertising - no magazine. But with regard to product placement any writer must always treat the reader with respect, simple as that.

I'm writing for this new magazine and take it very seriously and I'm well aware that it is nigh impossible to cater for every anglers need.

There is a new generation brought up on the Internet and to them names that mean everything to my generation are probably lost on them.
Doesn't make them wrong, shows that perhaps the older guys are a bit too insular and apprehensive about engaging with this new generation.
It's our job to make them aware.

As has already been said here, it's all about positive rather than negative attitudes.

 

[Bob Roberts]

Just seen the cover of this new magazine, Steve. Is it true? Free dirty mac offer if you take out an annual subscription.

Each to their own and in the context of this thread, I have to say, and here is a magazine with a very different slant. Perhaps it's what the folk who knock Improve are crying out for.

Details here: News: Launch: Fish ‘n’ Tips: InPublishing

Top shelf lads mag by the look of it. Semi-naked ladies draped on the cover, Belle of the Bivvy, Tackle Tart. 'Get a throb in you', reads the strap line above a buxom wench cradling an obviously Photoshopped carp, wearing nice red underwear, a doctor's coat and precious little more than a smile.

One wonders what items of, erm, tackle, the thigh booted 'tackle tart' will actually be reviewing inside.

I'm sure it will all be done in the best possible taste, but the 'junior' column might be interesting...

To Pae.......

Good luck to all who sail in her.

Bob Roberts
Bob Roberts - Fishing information for the complete angler

 

[alan whittington]

So why is Trout & Salmon prepared to say that a piece of kit is poor? It is happy to use star ratings and give a rod one or two out of ten. Their reviewers actually try stuff out instead of trotting out platitudes.

This is something that has niggled at me for years and I've had a moan on here before. What's the difference between coarse and game anglers? Is it that the latter won't put up with being treated like half wits? Surely the manufacturers realise that a 'review' in IYCF (and in the sadly missed CF) is worth zip?

I still remember with fondness a series that CF ran where a well known angler laid out all his tackle in a double page photo and discussed what he used. It ran for a few months until one individual just laid out the entire catalogue of his sponsor. Luckily they didn't make Y-Fronts or he would have been stood in them as well. Absolutely ridiculous.

Happily there is always the Angling Star...

Must agree about the T&S Matthew,and to Bob,i also disagree about reviews,when i read a review on,say 10 reels with all of them getting reasonable reports,then i go to the tackle shop and find most are tat,then how is that an honest review,unless the man does'nt know(then what the hell is he doing a review),i know you like diawa tackle Bob(advisor/employee),but the general quality of their kit is good,i think if i gave you some items with good reviews and said you had to use them,you'd soon tell me how bad they were,all reviews in weeklies and most monthlies are'nt worth the paper they are written on and are purely adverts which they must be paid for,if not they should not be in business.

 

[Lord Paul of Sheffield]

One review Bob wrote in mag was for Grub juice saying it improved catches
I bought a bottle and I can say from my own experience Bob was correct

 

[alan whittington]

M'lud,i saw that,but it wasnt really the same,i.e. having other competitors products to compare,i remember him saying on first impressions it looked good and to watch this space(sorry Bob,him being you).

 

[Bob Roberts]

Still carrying Grub Juice wherever I go, but especially when using maggots or pellets.

You'll find very few tackle reviews written by me anywhere. I prefer to show what I actually use and leave it at that.

Chances are if you see me using an item of tackle then it is by choice, that it is perfectly fit for the purpose intended, not because someone has asked me to promote it. Daiwa certainly don't work like that.

If I actually go out of my way to recommend something then it is by exception rather than the rule.

Reviews of books and DVDs are different, that is just passing a personal opinion as most customers judge them based on individual taste and experience levels. Many books these days are littered with gramatical errors, even spelling mistakes, while DVDs are littered with technical faults, continuity errors and downright flawed technique, but you have to look past that or every review ends up being the same old bunch of gripes.

There is no reason why a web site like this can't publish independent comparison reviews using a members panel. But would you get honest reviews or downright biased favouritism? How often does a thread start off with, 'I'm thinking of buying X, does anyone else own one...?' But ends up with replies like, 'I own Y, it's brilliant.'

In other words, the original product question is never actually answered.

And how do you actually rate a product? Price is a massive weighting factor. A reel costing £20 might deserve a 5 star review, but a £200 reel that performed identically would actually be worth no more than 1 star.

I was heavily involved with the design of the Infinity barbel rods. They are expensive but still represent very good value for money. The blank is made in the UK. The guides alone on the original rod cost over £60. Of course it came as no surprise when others ripped-off the design. It is so easy to copy a blank and have cheap imitations made in China for a fraction of the cost.

So, how many stars would you award the copy...?

As good as some rods costing twice the price...?

 

[alan whittington]

Bob,ive asked your advice on reels a couple of times and im grateful for the good genand wouldnt hesitate to ask again as i respect your opinion,but tell me why do the mags do reviews at all,when its total bullsh*t and im sorry but if anyone tells me different i dont believe them.

 

[Bob Roberts]

I've just looked through the new IYCF and there are hardly any ads if we're being honest. It surprised me, really, how few there were, but I guess that's down to the time of year (end of river season, too early for stillwaters, especially coming off the back of a bad winter for sales - the money's not around).

I can't speak on behalf of what they review or why, you'd have to ask them that, but surely the purpose of a review is to announce there's a new product on the market.

All major manufacturers hold trade shows in the Autumn to which dealers and media are invited to go along and view the new products. Delivery of those products is normally available from Dec/Jan onwards. Publications have two choices - handle the show models, get pics and steal a march on their competitors by publishing the first review or wait. Everyone wants to be first with the hot news and that goes for the majority of consumer goods, not just fishing tackle.

Dave Woodmansey compares a whole host of reels in the new mag. You cannot honestly expect him to have fished with every one of them, can you? However, most simply have a manufacturers tech spec next to the image. He does however go into more detail on certain 'choice' reels that I presume he's actually used.

The spread in the mag gives the reader sufficient info to make an informed choice based on his budget.

As to why magazines do reviews at all, I'd suggest it's a pincer movement. Anglers want to know what's new. Market research clearly states this is what the average reader is looking for. Manufacturers need to raise awareness of their new products as shops don't do it very well at all. Would you prefer there were no reviews and then have an extra 20 pages of adverts? How else would firms raise awareness?

It never has been and never will be a Which Guide. And have you ever used Which Guides? Never seem to review the item I'm looking at...

 

[Peter Jacobs]

but surely the purpose of a review is to announce there's a new product on the market.

Well, that is a somewhat different definition of the word 'review'

Other than the judicial definition I'd consider a review as being:
a critical article or report, as in a periodical, on a book, play, recital, or the like; critique; evaluation.

Hardly an 'announcement'

 

[alan whittington]

I cant believe it Bob,if you print on your website that you have a selection of reels being reviewed,then yes i would expect you to use them ALL,if Dave doesnt,then he is a pr@tt,announcing new products is great,telling me they are all good is not,years ago the angling press would print letters of complaint on companies products,now they wont,so everything looks hunky dory,what a load of SH1TE.

 

[the indifferent crucian]

I think everything you say has been sound Bob, but there is surely a distinct difference between a 'review' and an 'announcement' ?

I'd guess an experienced angler could tell a lot about a new reel by handling it, and he might pass on his initial thoughts in print. But I wouldn't expect a 'review' of several reels until he had fished with them for a season.

By then of course...it would be 'old news' !

As for adverts.......I think that generous Mr. Surgay is keeping the 'Weeklies ' afloat, bless him!

 

[Bob Roberts]

Your Dictionary dot com:

re·view (ri vyo̵̅o̅′; for vt. 1, rē′-)

noun

1.a looking at or looking over again
2.a general survey, report, or account
3.a looking back on; retrospective view or survey, as of past events or experiences

The Free Dictionary:

re·view (r-vy)
v. re·viewed, re·view·ing, re·views
v.tr.
1. To look over, study, or examine again.
2. To consider retrospectively; look back on.
3. To examine with an eye to criticism or correction: reviewed the research findings.
4. To write or give a critical report on (a new work or performance, for example).
5. Law To reexamine (an action or determination) judicially, especially in a higher court, in order to correct possible errors.
6. To subject to a formal inspection, especially a military inspection.

In a given year the trade probably releases 100+ new reels, at least as many rods, alarms, luggage, accessories, etc. If you want consistency in reviews one angler has to use them all. Are you seriously saying one angler can fish with all these items of tackle in a variety of circumstances, weather, venues, and catch fish on them all? Accompanied at all times by a professional photographer, of course.

Get real.

Sadly, it's clear from the comments I'm reading here that certain people are commenting without even seeing the magazine never mind reading it or they would be aware of DW's specific awards for items that he's used over the course of a full season.

Blind, bigotted, antagonistic, just for the negative hell of it, methinks.

Anyway, back to the thread topic. The accusation is that the mag is full of adverts. It isn't. Far from it.

 

[the indifferent crucian]

Not wishing to antagonise you further Bob, but if we carry your assertion to its logical conclusion it seems we must accept that a review of reels cannot be 'in depth' or accurate or based upon experience because there are just too many of them.

I can't accept that.

I used to work in the motorcycle trade. Every year new models were created often fully new, sometimes just a new paint scheme or a sporty exhaust system.

And yet American magazines would literally test a motorcycle to its limits and beyond and then dismantle it and show photographs of the internal workings. I've often wondered if they ever got re-assembled...I suspect not. These reports were extraordinarily thorough, leaving nothing un-tested or un-explained.

Now the American market is so large, the loss of a few motorcycles might not affect the importer, true...but surely we could thoroughly test a few fishing reels properly?


It's not as though you have to give them back do you?

I found your dictionary explanations interesting, thank-you for researching them and posting.


Putting aside the legal and military uses of the term, I think that the majority of those explanations would purport to expect something more thorough than just a report that something is new to the market, what I called an 'anouncement'.

There's not much you can say about a reel if you don't fish with it, other than its weight, materials of manufacture and line capacity..which is sort of just a 'press release', isn't it?


I'd personally have a lot more respect for an angling journalist who wrote about something he'd fished with. I'm not talking of specific people here, they aren't here to speak for themselves.
I note that you say you only show images of tackle you have personally used, in your articles. I respect that integrity and will take note of it in the future.

Before anyone says I'm taking the topic back away from the original post again, I will end with my assertion that a lot of articles in 'some' publications ARE advertising.

Or are we to believe that all those photographs of tackle have the manufactureres logo facing the camera by sheer co-incidence?

 

[Peter Jacobs]

"Get real"

Good advice, why not take it!