the indifferent crucian
Well-known member
Would that be another of Martin's indulgences, Neil?
Looks like a Small Block Chevy engine ???
Looks like a Small Block Chevy engine ???
Improve your coarse fishing advertising, errr... i mean magazine
- Thread starter swindy
- Start date
flightliner
Well-known member
I dont buy angling mags very often these days, an occasional one that has an article with a differance or if someone I know as an angling freind is feutured within. Personally I can live with the adverts so long as they dont outweigh the angling content but on occasions it does tend to go over the top somewhat-- if a writer is continually plugging some product or other I just switch off from it (the product)anyway. It would be nice to have a good turnaround of contributers as some do go past their best , others are more able to keep things fresh for the reader. I have, over the last couple of years developed a rule of thumb when buying a mag , I have to find five articles that I want to read, any less and it stays on the shelf.
One mag/paper I saw last month started off ok but the last five articles (if I,m correct)were all about braking ice on frozen ponds which was a little to much.
One mag/paper I saw last month started off ok but the last five articles (if I,m correct)were all about braking ice on frozen ponds which was a little to much.
the indifferent crucian
Well-known member
I mentioned 'product placement' a few posts ago, which has been illegal for many, many years on TV and Film.
I read yesterday that it's to be allowed...HMG thinks it's OK, now and the first product to get in is a coffee-maker.
I'm unsure why they should allow this now, after all this time. Are they saying that people are far too intelligent to be persuaded these days? Or that people were naive years ago?
I suspect some one in Parliament Square is feathering his nest!
Nescafe coffee machine on This Morning is first product placement on TV - Telegraph
I read yesterday that it's to be allowed...HMG thinks it's OK, now and the first product to get in is a coffee-maker.
I'm unsure why they should allow this now, after all this time. Are they saying that people are far too intelligent to be persuaded these days? Or that people were naive years ago?
I suspect some one in Parliament Square is feathering his nest!
Nescafe coffee machine on This Morning is first product placement on TV - Telegraph
Neil Maidment
Moderator
It's also the result of heavy lobbying from the TV producers looking to offer more advertising avenues in a highly competive and shrinking market. It seems a warning "logo" will be displayed before, during and after the programes... whoopee!!
Doubtless in due course..... a giant flourescent, flashing arrow will appear on screen, pointing to the product.... just in case we missed it!
Bob Roberts
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2002
- Messages
- 2,334
- Reaction score
- 8
When I appear on Sky TV's Tight Lines show it is quite specific that I cannot wear a top bearing a logo. If I shoot an outside broadcast to appear within the same show then I can. How mad is that?
I can take a Daiwa reel on the show and discuss its features, or any other item of product complete with packaging. Both will have logos and that's fine, so long as that logo doesn't appear on my shirt.
Similar rules prevent you from showing the case of a DVD but you can broadcast actual clips from the same DVD on the show. You can talk about it, mention it by name and say where it's available from.
The rules are not hard and fast and the producer may ask you not to over-egg the pudding in the rehearsal. Radio is much more flexible and relaxed about plugging.
By contrast, watch Loose Women or any chat show on Mainstream TV and the guests are only ever on there because they have something to plug - a new show, film, book, DVD, play, tour, boxing promotion or pantomime, perhaps.
Re: Southern version of AS? You had one, Southern Angler. Went skint a couple of years ago. As did Northern Angler and Midland Angler. Couldn't attract enough advertising or sufficient sales.
The issue of product placement within angling articles is a complex one. Some folk can't write a paragraph unless it contains, 'tie a Killer hook to a Winding braid, dab the knot with Sticky glue, attach this to theWobbly swivel on the end of my Haulin main laine loaded on my Whirlygig reel. The Ballyhooha rod will launch it past the horizon even with an Icemelt PVA bag.
On the other hand, how does one learn to tie-up the basics and how does a manufacturers get across, for instance, a best practise in use message? After all, no two people reading an article share exactly the same level of experience.
You can break down magazines into two main formats, instructional and aspirational. There is crossover within each but there's no point in moaning one or other doesn't meet your personally demanding criteria. Neither will change because they actually understand who their core reader is. You are the exception and your desires would most likely take a publication down the road to ruin as has happened many times in the recent past.
It's so easy to be cynical about content, the quality of the writing, absolutely naff images (product held at arms length facing lens, angler blurred, or pictures of a pile of unopened bait bags, pristine packaging, boring composition. But until budgets multiply we're never really going to truly fund and maintain professional freelance work across the board.
We could all name the worst individual offenders and the worst companies who encourage it. Those who've been around for a while can point to sponsored anglers who once spouted the philosophy of one brand before switching to another that suddenly becomes the bee's knees. One can only speculate what a reputation costs these days. You'd be surprised how little some anglers will prostitute theirs for...
But angling's a wide church. With the best will in the world there will never be an ideal magazine. Equally there's never likely to be a completely unbiased, independant writer.
I can take a Daiwa reel on the show and discuss its features, or any other item of product complete with packaging. Both will have logos and that's fine, so long as that logo doesn't appear on my shirt.
Similar rules prevent you from showing the case of a DVD but you can broadcast actual clips from the same DVD on the show. You can talk about it, mention it by name and say where it's available from.
The rules are not hard and fast and the producer may ask you not to over-egg the pudding in the rehearsal. Radio is much more flexible and relaxed about plugging.
By contrast, watch Loose Women or any chat show on Mainstream TV and the guests are only ever on there because they have something to plug - a new show, film, book, DVD, play, tour, boxing promotion or pantomime, perhaps.
Re: Southern version of AS? You had one, Southern Angler. Went skint a couple of years ago. As did Northern Angler and Midland Angler. Couldn't attract enough advertising or sufficient sales.
The issue of product placement within angling articles is a complex one. Some folk can't write a paragraph unless it contains, 'tie a Killer hook to a Winding braid, dab the knot with Sticky glue, attach this to theWobbly swivel on the end of my Haulin main laine loaded on my Whirlygig reel. The Ballyhooha rod will launch it past the horizon even with an Icemelt PVA bag.
On the other hand, how does one learn to tie-up the basics and how does a manufacturers get across, for instance, a best practise in use message? After all, no two people reading an article share exactly the same level of experience.
You can break down magazines into two main formats, instructional and aspirational. There is crossover within each but there's no point in moaning one or other doesn't meet your personally demanding criteria. Neither will change because they actually understand who their core reader is. You are the exception and your desires would most likely take a publication down the road to ruin as has happened many times in the recent past.
It's so easy to be cynical about content, the quality of the writing, absolutely naff images (product held at arms length facing lens, angler blurred, or pictures of a pile of unopened bait bags, pristine packaging, boring composition. But until budgets multiply we're never really going to truly fund and maintain professional freelance work across the board.
We could all name the worst individual offenders and the worst companies who encourage it. Those who've been around for a while can point to sponsored anglers who once spouted the philosophy of one brand before switching to another that suddenly becomes the bee's knees. One can only speculate what a reputation costs these days. You'd be surprised how little some anglers will prostitute theirs for...
But angling's a wide church. With the best will in the world there will never be an ideal magazine. Equally there's never likely to be a completely unbiased, independant writer.
quickcedo
Well-known member
I thought that was what IYCF was meant to be about. On the few occasions I've bought it, it's because it had tutorials on a piece missing in my angling jigsaw.
Judging from what I've read in this thread it appears I must have it wrong as I thought the title said it all.
Any novice or intermediate angler needs basic articles and after 43 years of fishing so do I sometimes as only a fool thinks he knows it all.
As for the adverts (if I'm correct in my assumptions re type of reader) then surely this is a good way of keeping the trade bouyant in these troubled times whilst allerting newcomers to what is available to them, not just what's in there local tackle shop. Of course this annoys the more experienced but the more experience should have learned to ingnore the sales pitch and look beyond.
On the flip side I bought one of the weeklies this week it took me about 5 minutes to read and it went in the bin, total waste of money for me but, I accept others will have loved every word.
Think you're on your own there, enjoy!
sam vimes
Well-known member
As well as drowning worms I was heavily into my shooting. I've got to know several folks in the industry, including some in the shooting press.
This thread, with a few name changes, could easily be on one of the shooting forums. The same complaints from normal anglers and the same defences from those more directly involved.
The bottom line is that if you don't like a magazine, don't buy it. Don't be fooled into thinking that magazines would be better without adverts, without them they simply won't exist. Don't expect to see terrible reviews in a hurry, specialist magazines in a relatively small market won't get help or revenue from manufacturers if they slate their products. Chances are that if you dislike a magazine it isn't aimed at you. If you are a very regular angler, or have been in the past, then most magazines probably aren't aimed at you either.
This thread, with a few name changes, could easily be on one of the shooting forums. The same complaints from normal anglers and the same defences from those more directly involved.
The bottom line is that if you don't like a magazine, don't buy it. Don't be fooled into thinking that magazines would be better without adverts, without them they simply won't exist. Don't expect to see terrible reviews in a hurry, specialist magazines in a relatively small market won't get help or revenue from manufacturers if they slate their products. Chances are that if you dislike a magazine it isn't aimed at you. If you are a very regular angler, or have been in the past, then most magazines probably aren't aimed at you either.
A
alan whittington
Guest
Im a bit confused here,a lot of articles within IYCF are tutorial with the beginner the main target i would have thought,but when a "review" comes up the poor beginner gets shafted up the jacksy,as all the comments are positive,so the good old IYCF costs the poor old punter an arm and a leg,my advice is buy nothing on the advice of any magazine,post on here and take a majority view,then go to the tackle shop and make an opinion then,as far as i can see,if a mag doesnt give honest,open reviews(none at all would be of better use),it doesnt deserve anglers cash.:w
jimmy crackedcorn
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2010
- Messages
- 507
- Reaction score
- 0
If it is truly aimed at anglers starting out, IMHO there wont be any bad reviews, because if you dont know better (and as a beginner - you dont) if its in a mag, its mainstream and good. Its not a poundland rod. Its not secondhand one that may or not have been abused. Now you or I will have good idea what makes a good rod but beginners dont. You tell a new or novice angler (or me !) to "waggle" a rod and they wont really know the difference. They'll go on price as much as anything.
And as for the friendly tackle shop, I've been in a few as a youngster and a returner and been shafted far more than the mags have. Often they'll sell what they have rather than whats best.
And as for the friendly tackle shop, I've been in a few as a youngster and a returner and been shafted far more than the mags have. Often they'll sell what they have rather than whats best.
quickcedo
Well-known member
Mate as wrong as that is, that's the way it's always been and always will be. It doesn't matter what you're into it's the same and I think most people know that. Just because someone is new to fishing doesn't have to mean they are naive. Yes I'm sure a few get shafted but i don't think it's as bad as you may think.
A
alan whittington
Guest
Go and buy some stuff from Dragoncarp,i know how impressed you are with them,shows you how much their stuff costs them by the amount of ads they can afford to spread across the angling media,its total guff as you well know.
quickcedo
Well-known member
Yes it is total rubbish for you and me but, I personally know 2 guys who use there stuff and absolutely love it. It has a place in fishing. As the 2 guys I know progress in there fishing lives they will move up the quallity ladder. You have to accept that a proportion of "anglers" only fish occasionally and therefore cannot warrant the cost of "high end" gear.
Infact what was you're first car? I bet it wasn't a top of the range Merc.
The same goes for the mag. People who fish on holiday (or whatever) need mags like this as it can be very daunting for newbies to enter tackle shops and look a complete nob.
Infact what was you're first car? I bet it wasn't a top of the range Merc.
The same goes for the mag. People who fish on holiday (or whatever) need mags like this as it can be very daunting for newbies to enter tackle shops and look a complete nob.
Last edited:
Tim Ridge
Well-known member
I'm sorry bob but that isn't true. I can say without any doubt at all that Dave tipping insn't remotely biased in any way or form. He has no 'commercial' connections within angling at all.
Within the limited amount of work that I've done i've striven to ensure that my only bias is towards the reader (and only the reader) and I've gone out of my way not to mention my employers or their products.
My reasons .. Well I'm sick of the blatant commercialism that you described. To my mind it goes further than to invite questions regarding the possible motives for writing it invites questions (and rightly so) as to the integrity of the content.
sam vimes
Well-known member
Plenty of fuss on various forums over the Marco Cortesi centrepin to suggest that not all Dragon Carp stuff is junk. It's also been available in two other guises at £60 and £100.
---------- Post added at 20:38 ---------- Previous post was at 20:34 ----------
Tim,
do you have to have a commercial connection to a product to be biased?
I've no connection whatsoever to any particular tackle brand but I rarely buy any reel that doesn't have Shimano on the side of it. While that bias will never be seen in the angling press I'm fairly sure it'll be evident in my ramblings on various forums.
Tim Ridge
Well-known member
No I can honestly say I don't have any bias for any brand, I own drennan, Daiwa, Nash, Prologic, fox, Shakespeare, Wychwoood and Map Rods and will use any other brand that I think is best for my intended task, My reels include just as many manufacturers wares and yes if someone asked my advise on a product or a tool for a particular job I would give them an honest answer, probably incorporating several possible options including all their individual merits.
Thats the trouble with being unbiased I suppose, it can be a bit long winded.
Far better to only mention a product if it is absolutely neccesary to my mind and in order to preserver any semblance of credibility, to mention the product that I would honestly consider the absolute best for the job irrespective of who makes it.
Thats the trouble with being unbiased I suppose, it can be a bit long winded.
Far better to only mention a product if it is absolutely neccesary to my mind and in order to preserver any semblance of credibility, to mention the product that I would honestly consider the absolute best for the job irrespective of who makes it.
sam vimes
Well-known member
I wasn't trying to suggest that you would favour a particular brand over every other. However, surely it has to be inevitable that we favour brands or at least items from a certain brands over others? I'm under no illusion that much of my gear couldn't be bettered by another brand. I'd still maintain that I'd show bias to the kit I'm familiar and happy with, much as I'd show bias against kit I'd had a bad experience of. That's not to say that I'd recommend everything I have without reservation. It's nigh on impossible to have experience of everything, or even the largest part, of the kit that's out there.
I'm likely to buy, or at least shortlist, certain brands (Daiwa, Shimano, Greys, Korum/Preston, Drennan, Fox and Nash) over others. The exclusions aren't always entirely logical either. I know that I won't buy Shakespeare, for no good reason that I can think of.
Lord Paul of Sheffield
Well-known member
I wasn't trying to suggest that you would favour a particular brand over every other. However, surely it has to be inevitable that we favour brands or at least items from a certain brands over others? I'm under no illusion that much of my gear couldn't be bettered by another brand. I'd still maintain that I'd show bias to the kit I'm familiar and happy with, much as I'd show bias against kit I'd had a bad experience of. That's not to say that I'd recommend everything I have without reservation. It's nigh on impossible to have experience of everything, or even the largest part, of the kit that's out there.
I'm likely to buy, or at least shortlist, certain brands (Daiwa, Shimano, Greys, Korum/Preston, Drennan, Fox and Nash) over others. The exclusions aren't always entirely logical either. I know that I won't buy Shakespeare, for no good reason that I can think of.
You might be surprised with Shakespeaere rods - some good feeder rods from them and good prices too
Tim Ridge
Well-known member
I don't buy through brand at all. I personally think that unless you have little choice (i.e limited experience and no access to qualified but unbiased advise), this is a crazy option.
I tend to look at the tactics I want to use and then decide or research the best specification, for the intended task. Only then do I look for a rod/reel/line or whatever. Very occasionally I get it wrong but not as often as in the past when I relied upon the advise given in various magazines or from Tackle dealers.
Basically, through buying a lot of unsuitable products I now have a better idea. I do resent/begrudge the bad advise I recieved from those who had no real interest (or no ability) in helping me, merely a financial interest. I'm tight, I don't mind admitting that I don't like buying a second product to replace the unsuitable one I purchased first.
An awful lot of my tackle didn't cost a lot of money compared to comparative products yet in many cases I wouldn't hesitate to suggest that it is superior.
I mentioned researching to decide the best product specification. By this I mean I look to any source which is likely to be accurate. Within this I'd include anglers whos knowledge and ability I respect but also science text books and technical information from outside of angling, physics for instance. An awful lot of those who advise on tackle don't really know the scientific facts relating to the products they advocate and their advise is often contrary to these!
I tend to look at the tactics I want to use and then decide or research the best specification, for the intended task. Only then do I look for a rod/reel/line or whatever. Very occasionally I get it wrong but not as often as in the past when I relied upon the advise given in various magazines or from Tackle dealers.
Basically, through buying a lot of unsuitable products I now have a better idea. I do resent/begrudge the bad advise I recieved from those who had no real interest (or no ability) in helping me, merely a financial interest. I'm tight, I don't mind admitting that I don't like buying a second product to replace the unsuitable one I purchased first.
An awful lot of my tackle didn't cost a lot of money compared to comparative products yet in many cases I wouldn't hesitate to suggest that it is superior.
I mentioned researching to decide the best product specification. By this I mean I look to any source which is likely to be accurate. Within this I'd include anglers whos knowledge and ability I respect but also science text books and technical information from outside of angling, physics for instance. An awful lot of those who advise on tackle don't really know the scientific facts relating to the products they advocate and their advise is often contrary to these!