Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

[Lord Paul of Sheffield]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

On old school friend of mine from Eton caught a large fish in Canada, he was fishing with Prince Phillip and Winston Churchill' s grand daughter :wh

just a post to remember the old days

 

[flightliner]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

As you know Mick I attended "Eaton" when it was an agricultural college... It doesn't half impress people that I tell, especially without the benefit of the subtle difference of the written spelling, when I accidentally forget to correct their natural thought path :wh

I'm sure I once got a job purely off the back of it.

Sorry, off topic.

Steve, not off topic at all as I see so many relevant similarities, steam from nearby power stations can be seen from said college, warm water distribution from both of them, upstream and downstream on account of them being on a tidal reach of the river Trent,loads of lampray inhabiting the river there too, some of em liking the odd boillie in the wintertime (Well that was the case back in the eighties) obviously more to their liking than a carps underbelly , its all there so dont worry .
Nice to know you did well out of the place too, turning your college based skills from chopping logs, straw, palings etx to specialising on worms is indeed a sight to behold-- Edward scissorhands cant hold a candle to you.

ps, I know ive said before but for years I taught carpentry and joinery in a college of FE, usual vocational thing, 50% in workshop and 50% in classroom doing work related subjects, one of which was timber technology.
One late morning after banging on about the pysical differances between hard and softwoods one of the students stopped me in mid track and said "duz tha no, ar rekons tha must b' best timber brain int' country".
I didnt know wether to take it as a compliment or simply t- - t the cheeky **** r at breaktime !!.
Thats off topic Steve.

 

[bennygesserit]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

On old school friend of mine from Eton caught a large fish in Canada, he was fishing with Prince Phillip and Winston Churchill' s grand daughter :wh

just a post to remember the old days

Yes indeed Lord Paul I myself , remember fonder days when angling and anglers were not trying to eat themselves, I have , as many of the movers and shakers are aware , forewarned , those that would listen , of this very fact and within this very forum.

But of course "We don' understand i'm" is the petulant cry of those on who's ears the gift of my wisdom falls.

 

[eddiebenham]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

Cliff & Eddie

Give up the ghost trying to dis-credit Paul S and Co at every opportunity and just name the water and produce the photo's with the sign in the background that will show the name of the water.

tony......Paul S seems to be doing a good enough job on himself without my help.
For your information, not that it will make any difference, this quote from Terry who works at Lennox in Canada.
"I don't see any Golden Rod in the photo. There is a lot of Golden Rod around here, so I know exactly what it looks like".
As to producing the photos. I have made it perfectly clear that there are none to produce, if there were I would be only too happy to tell you so.
I believe that I know where the water is, and it's not in Canada. It's in England but I am not prepared to name it.
If you (and others) still think that Martin made his carp catches in Canada after all the information I have made public, then that's up to you, and as it should be, that's your choice.
I'm not going to make up anything in order to convince anyone otherwise. You either believe me or you don't believe me, and you accept what Paul S has written. What version of his you accept of course is your choice to make, but at least you have options to choose from.

Let us all hope for a Happy and Peaceful New Year.

Eddie

 

[Graham Elliott 1]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

Dear Dorset
Ex home Turf.

Yes. I think their boaters get in the way. Or they think we should stop for them being Elite (hides from Paul) Nearly topped couple of them myself.

Happy days fishing Romney Weir.

I congratulate Cliff for the Longest ever post, excluding Lee Fletchers efforts of course.


Happy New Year chaps.

 

[tonybull]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

tony......
As to producing the photos. I have made it perfectly clear that there are none to produce, if there were I would be only too happy to tell you so.
I believe that I know where the water is, and it's not in Canada. It's in England but I am not prepared to name it.
If you (and others) still think that Martin made his carp catches in Canada after all the information I have made public, then that's up to you, and as it should be, that's your choice.

Let us all hope for a Happy and Peaceful New Year.

Eddie

Eddie

Its a shame your not prepared to name the water and its a pity the angler who see the swim won't come forward.

I don't think Cliff knows anything concrete and that's a shame given he started the thread.

Really enjoyed the thread though because I had never even heard of Martin Gay and the big Carp before this thread was started.

Eddie, do you still fish a bit ? I get over Slough House for the odd Winter Match, Silvers only and it one of my favourite venues in the winter.

Let us all hope for a Happy and Peaceful New Year.

Cheers Tony

 

[dorsetandchub]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

Graham,


When I first moved South, I lived in Eton Wick. Had some really enjoyable fishing on the Thames and Roundmoor Stream, which I really enjoyed chasing chub on floating bread.

Off topic, apologies to all.

Best to you,


Phil.

Dear Dorset
Ex home Turf.

Yes. I think their boaters get in the way. Or they think we should stop for them being Elite (hides from Paul) Nearly topped couple of them myself.

Happy days fishing Romney Weir.

I congratulate Cliff for the Longest ever post, excluding Lee Fletchers efforts of course.


Happy New Year chaps.

 

[eddiebenham]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

Eddie

Its a shame your not prepared to name the water and its a pity the angler who see the swim won't come forward.

I don't think Cliff knows anything concrete and that's a shame given he started the thread.

Really enjoyed the thread though because I had never even heard of Martin Gay and the big Carp before this thread was started.

Eddie, do you still fish a bit ? I get over Slough House for the odd Winter Match, Silvers only and it one of my favourite venues in the winter.

Let us all hope for a Happy and Peaceful New Year.

Cheers Tony

Hi Tony..............Glad you enjoyed the thread.

Yes, I do still fish, mainly for Tench, and I've had quite a dew doubles including 2 Elevens and 3 Twelves. I've also had carp up to 36 lb (weighed by a carp angler) on my Tench gear.

You mention Slough House, is that the fishery near Bulphan/Orsett ? If so, then let me know when you're there next and I'll try to drop in on you with my Martin Gay Scrapbooks. You might find them interesting. A PM will be fine.

Eddie

 

[Graham Elliott 1]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

Small World Phil.

I lived opposite the Greyhound pub for a couple of years.

Eddie. Did you read my barbel carping articles on the site?
Managed a 35 common tenching. Leney fish by all experts.

Graham

 

[dorsetandchub]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

Certainly is, Graham - had a few fair few quiz nights in the Greyhound.I really must go back and have a mooch around....

 

[The bad one]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

I congratulate Cliff for the Longest ever post, excluding Lee Fletchers efforts of course.


Happy New Year chaps.

Graham Elliot how dare you speak of the two in the same sentence. Editor Hatton is a "Rank Amateur" when it comes to the written millenniums of words scribed by my good friend Lee F!

How double dog dare you!!!!
Happy New Year Lee

 

[bennygesserit]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

Now THAT is key to everything.

The unedited photos may still exist and could potentially be the only evidence that can solve this saga conclusivly.

Make NO mistake...Eddie and Mr Hatton have consistantly been evasive when it comes to either thier whereabouts or left out details about thier contents.

If either of them wish to deny this then i will happily cut and paste multiple examples from the threads to demonstrate.

If anyone wants to really get to the bottom of this then they should ignore the constant red herrings being thrown in which will only lead to more inconclusive heresay and focus only on the photos and thier wereabouts.

I have followed this discussion closely. To save people the effort of reading back i can tell you this is what we know about the photos whereabouts:

1. Mr Hatton said he had no idea where they were and suggested they could have been burnt.

2. He then later amended his story to authoritivly say that Yvonne Gay (martin Gays wife who actually took the photos) no longer has them.

...this is a good example of how it appears mr Hatton is misleading the discussion ....how can he have no idea were the photos are but at the same time be So utterly certain Yvonne Gay no longer has them?

...care to explain that mr Hatton ?

3. Eddie Benham said he spoke to Yvonne Gay about the photos..he told us she said she had "disposed" of them and that was the end of that and no one would ever see them.

I pressed Eddie multiple times on what "disposed of" actually means? ....did it mean they no longer exist? ....Eddie was tremendously evasive on this...its there for anyone to see on the other thread. Mr Hatton waded in as well ...accusing me of a personal problem with Eddie and saying thing such as "disposed of means disposed of!" And telling me thats all i would be getting. Dispite the insults & accusations i continued to push on this point...pressing Eddie to tell us what EXACTLY Yvonne Gay said to him when he asked her about the photos..and lo and behold..Eddie changed his story and admitted she did not say "disposed of" ...and amended it to now say she "no longer has them"....aligning now you will note with mr Hattons statements.

I have since consistantly pressed Eddie to tell us what EXACTLY (word for word) Yvonne Gay said to him when he asked her about the photos. He has thus far failed to tell us. I also draw attention to the fact this a fairly recent event..weeks...so it should be fresh indeed in his memory..no 25 year memory issues on this one.

Mr Hatton on the other hand had consistantly refused to anwser the question of how he knows Yvonne Gay no longer had the photos or more crucially...if he knows were they may be now...all he tells us is that no ones going to see them ever!

....how does Mr Hatton know this? ...if he has no idea where they are how can he so conclusivly tell us no one will ever see them?

Care to explain that Mr Hatton?

What we can draw from all this is the photos potentially still exist and Yvonne Gay was the last person we can say with certainty had them (as she took them so must have had them). We dont know what she said to Eddie about them when he asked and we dont know if she destroyed them, kept them or...Maybe...passed them onto someone else....a close family friend perhaps?

We also need to consider why mr Hatton CLEARLY alluded to the presence of a stack of canoes in the background of the photos on a different website but failed to make any mention of them at any point here. Simply brushing people off with comments about the background containing scrubland and little else.

The other point that seems strange is that if mr Hatton is so certain of the uk argument then surely tracking down the unedited photos offers his best and only hope of proving it. Why focus so much effort on debunking the CS claims but so easily dismiss anything about tracking down the photos which could prove what he says and debunk the CS claims at the same time?

If Eddie or mr Hatton wish to contest any of the above i can demonstrate what i am saying with cut and pasted quotes from them.

Maybe it looks like I am Stirring but I'd just like to point out that we never did get any answers to Phillip's post.

 

[Ray Daywalker Clarke]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

I don't think you will get the answers to Philips questions.

Just as we won't get to see the photo's, or know the name of the venue.

Thats why for those reason's, IMO the fish came from Canada.

Eddie and Cliff can't give use the proof, they have said that themselves, they can only try and convince people to change their minds. Rather like them changing what they have said at time's.

Did anyone see River Monsters last night, all about Lamprey. In parts of Canada, lamprey have attacked swimmers in the lakes.

Dr Jeremy Wade went out with the water authority and electro fished the lakes. Some of the fish had lamprey bite makes on them, one fish a 20lb plus pike had a very large bite on it, and it was stated, that the kind of mark would vary depending on how long the Lamprey had been sucking on it's victim. Some of these Lamprey were 4 foot long.

In Canada the Lamprey are disposed of, as there are that many, yet in the USA they are farming them, as they can't get as far up river as they used to, due to Dams being built.

This also in my mind, blows what Cliff said regarding the mark on the Carp out of the water. These were FACTS, Not Fiction.

 

[eddiebenham]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

Originally Posted by Philip View Post
Now THAT is key to everything.

The unedited photos may still exist and could potentially be the only evidence that can solve this saga conclusivly.

Make NO mistake...Eddie and Mr Hatton have consistantly been evasive when it comes to either thier whereabouts or left out details about thier contents.

If either of them wish to deny this then i will happily cut and paste multiple examples from the threads to demonstrate.

If anyone wants to really get to the bottom of this then they should ignore the constant red herrings being thrown in which will only lead to more inconclusive heresay and focus only on the photos and thier wereabouts.

I have followed this discussion closely. To save people the effort of reading back i can tell you this is what we know about the photos whereabouts:

1. Mr Hatton said he had no idea where they were and suggested they could have been burnt.

2. He then later amended his story to authoritivly say that Yvonne Gay (martin Gays wife who actually took the photos) no longer has them.

...this is a good example of how it appears mr Hatton is misleading the discussion ....how can he have no idea were the photos are but at the same time be So utterly certain Yvonne Gay no longer has them?

...care to explain that mr Hatton ?

3. Eddie Benham said he spoke to Yvonne Gay about the photos..he told us she said she had "disposed" of them and that was the end of that and no one would ever see them.

I pressed Eddie multiple times on what "disposed of" actually means? ....did it mean they no longer exist? ....Eddie was tremendously evasive on this...its there for anyone to see on the other thread. Mr Hatton waded in as well ...accusing me of a personal problem with Eddie and saying thing such as "disposed of means disposed of!" And telling me thats all i would be getting. Dispite the insults & accusations i continued to push on this point...pressing Eddie to tell us what EXACTLY Yvonne Gay said to him when he asked her about the photos..and lo and behold..Eddie changed his story and admitted she did not say "disposed of" ...and amended it to now say she "no longer has them"....aligning now you will note with mr Hattons statements.

I have since consistantly pressed Eddie to tell us what EXACTLY (word for word) Yvonne Gay said to him when he asked her about the photos. He has thus far failed to tell us. I also draw attention to the fact this a fairly recent event..weeks...so it should be fresh indeed in his memory..no 25 year memory issues on this one.

Mr Hatton on the other hand had consistantly refused to anwser the question of how he knows Yvonne Gay no longer had the photos or more crucially...if he knows were they may be now...all he tells us is that no ones going to see them ever!

....how does Mr Hatton know this? ...if he has no idea where they are how can he so conclusivly tell us no one will ever see them?

Care to explain that Mr Hatton?

What we can draw from all this is the photos potentially still exist and Yvonne Gay was the last person we can say with certainty had them (as she took them so must have had them). We dont know what she said to Eddie about them when he asked and we dont know if she destroyed them, kept them or...Maybe...passed them onto someone else....a close family friend perhaps?

We also need to consider why mr Hatton CLEARLY alluded to the presence of a stack of canoes in the background of the photos on a different website but failed to make any mention of them at any point here. Simply brushing people off with comments about the background containing scrubland and little else.

The other point that seems strange is that if mr Hatton is so certain of the uk argument then surely tracking down the unedited photos offers his best and only hope of proving it. Why focus so much effort on debunking the CS claims but so easily dismiss anything about tracking down the photos which could prove what he says and debunk the CS claims at the same time?

If Eddie or mr Hatton wish to contest any of the above i can demonstrate what i am saying with cut and pasted quotes from them.

=bennygesserit;1364351]Maybe it looks like I am Stirring but I'd just like to point out that we never did get any answers to Phillip's post.

Hi Benny.........It seems that whatever I say to Philip, he always wants more. The kayaks is an example. After saying that I could not identify the objects behind the fence, Philip asked me if they could have been kayaks to which I replied (even though I was reluctant to do so as I really did not know) that they could have been kayaks or canoes or something else. Having told him that I seem to recall that he mentioned that kayaking was very popular in Canada. The theory of kayaks at Lennox has now been dropped of course.

Hi Philip.......You mention that 'despite the insults and accusations'.
I don't recall insulting you or accusing you of anything. Despite the insults and put downs (go join the Flat Earth Society for one) that I have been subjected to (not by you) it is something I have tried to avoid doing. If I have therefore unknowingly been guilty of this then please accept my apologies.

Philip, Benny and everyone else............I believe that I have exhausted the search for the photos and I can only say that as far as I can establish they no longer exist. As I have previously stated, when Martin showed me any photos he ALWAYS retained them, he never gave any away, not to me anyway, and I think the same applied to ALL those who saw them, including Robin Monday I should think. I did not think it necessary or appropriate to have recorded or written down Yvonnes exact words and repeat them here. The bottom line is she doesn't have any of the photos, I don't have any, and Cliff doesn't have any either.

I cannot say for certain that no photos exist at all though as I don't know what happened to those sent to Colin Dyson for instance, and they may well still exist. I have previously made this point somewhere.

I only wish that I could produce a photo but I can't because I don't have any, unedited or not. You have my word on that (I would willingly swear an oath to confirm that if it were necessary).

Anyway, I did manage to track down some other unedited photos, which are nothing like the edited ones, for you to look at didn't I. Try stacking kayaks, canoes or anything else for that matter behind that fence. Terry, who works at Lennox Power Station and whose office overlooks Lake Ontario says that he has NEVER seen any kayaks there.

Eddie

 

[Philip]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

Hi Eddie, thanks for replying. I don’t even know where to begin. Sorry its going to be a long one..

First things first…the insults and accusations comment was clearly directed at Mr Hatton who had this been on any other web site where he was not Editor would have seen him banned for some of the posts he has made. I thought this was obvious Eddie so dare I suggest you need to read, absorb and digest the posts I make & not skim over them ? …& yes, I know, its incredibly annoying when someone says that isn’t it ! Banter aside no apology is needed from you & I am glad you recognized I also have tried to stay civil throughout. Shame about the editor…but it is HIS web site…

Plenty of errors in your post Eddie. Sorry but its true. Its littered with inaccuracies. I cant cover them all so I’ll try and focus on some of the main ones…

1) To suggest whatever you say is never enough for me is not correct.

I will dig on a point until I think we have reached a dead end and then I will let it drop. I’ll give a clear example…. Do you recall the long (Very long..) debate we had on the other thread about why you never tried to find the water yourself despite by your own admission you having all the elements you needed to find it ? Do you recall how that went and how it ended Eddie ? ….here let me jog your memory:

You said when the story first came to light you went physically looking for the water based on what you had seen in the photos but never found it. Martin then at a later date sent you an article he was going to publish to proof read which you advised him to edit as it gave additional details that would allow the water to be found.

I asked you how come you could not find or name the water if you clearly now had all the details from Martin to locate it ?

Your explanation was that you did not try and find the water out of a “trust” to Martin. So I naturally asked where was this supposed trust when you (by your own admission) first went looking for the water after you saw the photos ?

Your explanation for this was that at the start when you first saw the photos you were caught up in the initial Euphoria of the catch & so went physically looking for the water. However this Euphoria then disappeared when Martin gave you the extra information in the article you needed to locate it so you simply didn’t bother going to looking for it again as the trust for Martin had apparently reignited itself once more.


Now feel free to correct me if I am wrong here Eddie because that’s pretty much what you said right? …Read it back…does your explanation sound plausible to you ? ….You go physically looking for the water (so sod any trust to Martin, at that point) but then just when he then gives you the rest of the information needed to find it you just decide to give up looking and this magical “trust” for Martin takes over again !!!!!

I am not trying to be mean Eddie but put yourself in my or anyone elses shoes ….does that really sound plausible or believable to you Eddie ? …because to me it sounds like one massive load of BS (sorry) after you volenterred too much information and then tied yourself in knots trying to backtrack.

However ! Despite my obvious & I would say warranted suspicions ….you then said to me that this was the truth. You simply gave up looking when you had the information you needed to locate the water and I either believed you or I didn’t and that was that.

I acknowledged this & told you that no further discussion was needed on this specific point as we had now reached a dead end as only YOU would ever know the truth. I never raised that subject again until now to prove a point.


2) Kayaks.

You said …” The theory of kayaks at Lennox has now been dropped of course.”

…..thats because Eddie the theory of of Kayaks at Lennox WAS NEVER RAISED. The only person who is attempting to crow bar LENNOX into this once again Eddie is YOU because you once again are trying to veer things onto PS and the CS. Please stop doing it !!!!

My question was about the presence of a stack of Kayaks (or Canoes or boats or whatever word you want to apply for a device that human beings row or sail on water) in the background of the photos. NOT AT LENNOX POWER STATION. So please stop trying to crow bar that in at every attempt…thank you !

The fact is Mr Hatton thinks the objects stacked up in the background of the photos could have been canoes as he CLEARLY ALLUDED TO THAT ON ANOTHER WEB SITE and if they were not Kayaks then what else would they be ?

You see my problem with this and why I continue to push on this point is because I frankly find it amazing that in the 1000s of words he has written about the background of the photos, telling everyone it contained nothing but non descript scrubland he omitted to mention “oh there may have also been a stack of boats there too” !

…..dont you find that amazing Eddie ? …in all the pages and articles he has written on this website about the lack of a power station and its chimneys in the photos he has , what ? …FORGOTTEN ? ….to mention something that IS in the photos ?

You have to wonder why would he omit to mention this ? ….Would it be because if he (or you) admitted there was indeed a stack of Kayaks in the photos it would suggest a Kayak club or rental was operating on the water and so drastically reduce the number of waters it could potentially be ? …for example how many lakes in the South of England do you know with a Kayak club operating on them Eddie ? …cant be many can it !

However as for this....

Terry, who works at Lennox Power Station and whose office overlooks Lake Ontario says that he has NEVER seen any kayaks there.

oh dear ! …are you intentionally trying to yank my & everyone elses chain Eddie ? OF COURSE there are Kayaks on lake Ontario Eddie ! Would you like me to cut & paste the links to multiple Kayak clubs operating there ? …Yes I agree ….perhaps they are not operating in the bit of water outside Terrys window right by the bloody great power station but then again I doubt Martin fished in the bit of water outside Terrys window either did he ! Maybe Terry needs to take a look round the OTHER 19000 square Kilomters of lake ...I am sure he will see Kayaks "there"

…Please stop throwing in the ridiculous red herrings and silly play on word games Eddie. Its incredibly annoying and patronizing in the extreme to the readership to think anyone would actually fall for this BLANTANT ATTEMPT TO MUDDY THE WATER AND MISLEAD PEOPLE. Please stop doing it ! Theres a good lad


3)The Photos.

I did not think it necessary or appropriate to have recorded or written down Yvonnes exact words and repeat them here.

Unfortunately we therefore differ on this point. Because I see the unedited photos being absolutely critical to determining where the Carp was caught so anything related to their contents or whereabouts should be subjected to the same meticulous scrutiny, detail and effort that you & Mr Hatton have applied to trying to discredit the claims of the CS. Knowing what EXACTLY Yvonne Gay said about the photos when you asked her may give some tiny clue as to were they are now. Hence my continued pushing on this point.
Unfortunatly just like the aforementioned failure to locate the water when you had all the details to find it , only you know the truth....so if you dont want to tell us what exactly Yvonne said then this becomes a dead end. Only YOU will ever know what she said. Its a shame you dont want to tell us and people can draw their own conclusions from that.


4) Eddie in the interests of trying to move this on…one thing you mention that interests me greatly is this…

Anyway, I did manage to track down some other unedited photos, which are nothing like the edited ones, for you to look at didn't I. Try stacking kayaks, canoes or anything else for that matter behind that fence.

Forgive me but its my Spanish inquisition need for details again.... I am confused….which photos are you now talking about ? ….you mention the fence as well ….are you saying that you have some photos of the actual chain link fence that was in the unedited photos ? ….perhaps not with Martin or the Carp or the Kayaks or anything else….But do you have some photos of the actual chain link fence that was in the unedited photos ?

Please give a clear answer to this point if you can. Thanks.

 

[no-one in particular]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

I believe that I know where the water is, and it's not in Canada. It's in England but I am not prepared to name it.
Let us all hope for a Happy and Peaceful New Year.

Eddie

Hi Eddie, (happy new year to you too). why not name it, if anyone you are possibly the best one to discover the water. If it is correct, there may still be many features in place that tally with all the information we have about the original water. Its always been a crucial part of this to identify the water, it would go a long way to resolving this.

 

[dorsetandchub]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

Eddie,


Be honest here, is it because you know MG should not have been fishing there, did not have the relevant permission and that that would invalidate his catch?

Otherwise, after 25 years, you'd need to have a cast iron reason.

It's avoidances like this which are not helping your case. Claims are one thing, proof another.

Happy new year and trust and hope your wife is on the mend?

 

[thecrow]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

Be honest here, is it because you know MG should not have been fishing there, did not have the relevant permission and that that would invalidate his catch?

On the other thread I said this in post #8 it has never been denied on any of the threads.

Myself I can only conclude that if the fish was caught in England that the reason the "well known angler" will not come forward and give his evidence is because the water in question was not one that was available to fish legally, or that the fish was caught somewhere other than England and the "well known angler" doesn't want to be involved in it.

I still think this even though for a while I thought the fish could have been caught in Canada, its the only scenario that makes any sense to me.

 

[dorsetandchub]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

Good Morning Mr Crow,


It's difficult, via an examination of the "facts" to come to any definitive conclusion but I'd agree that that scenario makes perfect sense.

That said, I have asked Cliff a number of times how he can accept and endorse certain behaviours such as under reporting the weight to make it more believable, the complete disregard for the set pattern and rules of claiming such a catch but he actually lauded the lessening of the actual weight.

Therefore, I can only conclude that even if fishing illegally, his friends will view this as nothing wrong as they have everything else so far.

Until further actual fact is produced, I've said my last. Unlike my dictionary, some people's put friendship before facts. I'd rather deal with the facts per se, including the ones that don't show some people in a good light. If they're facts, they're facts and MUST form part of an open, honest appraisal.

All the best and a happy new, fish filled, year to you.

 

[Cliff Hatton]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

Philip said, again: "The unedited photos may still exist and could potentially be the only evidence that can solve this saga conclusivly.

Make NO mistake...Eddie and Mr Hatton have consistantly been evasive when it comes to either thier whereabouts or left out details about thier contents.

If either of them wish to deny this then i will happily cut and paste multiple examples from the threads to demonstrate.

If anyone wants to really get to the bottom of this then they should ignore the constant red herrings being thrown in which will only lead to more inconclusive heresay and focus only on the photos and thier wereabouts.

I have followed this discussion closely. To save people the effort of reading back i can tell you this is what we know about the photos whereabouts:

1. Mr Hatton said he had no idea where they were and suggested they could have been burnt.

2. He then later amended his story to authoritivly say that Yvonne Gay (martin Gays wife who actually took the photos) no longer has them.

...this is a good example of how it appears mr Hatton is misleading the discussion ....how can he have no idea were the photos are but at the same time be So utterly certain Yvonne Gay no longer has them?

...care to explain that mr Hatton ?

3. Eddie Benham said he spoke to Yvonne Gay about the photos..he told us she said she had "disposed" of them and that was the end of that and no one would ever see them.

I pressed Eddie multiple times on what "disposed of" actually means? ....did it mean they no longer exist? ....Eddie was tremendously evasive on this...its there for anyone to see on the other thread. Mr Hatton waded in as well ...accusing me of a personal problem with Eddie and saying thing such as "disposed of means disposed of!" And telling me thats all i would be getting. Dispite the insults & accusations i continued to push on this point...pressing Eddie to tell us what EXACTLY Yvonne Gay said to him when he asked her about the photos..and lo and behold..Eddie changed his story and admitted she did not say "disposed of" ...and amended it to now say she "no longer has them"....aligning now you will note with mr Hattons statements.

I have since consistantly pressed Eddie to tell us what EXACTLY (word for word) Yvonne Gay said to him when he asked her about the photos. He has thus far failed to tell us. I also draw attention to the fact this a fairly recent event..weeks...so it should be fresh indeed in his memory..no 25 year memory issues on this one.

Mr Hatton on the other hand had consistantly refused to anwser the question of how he knows Yvonne Gay no longer had the photos or more crucially...if he knows were they may be now...all he tells us is that no ones going to see them ever!

....how does Mr Hatton know this? ...if he has no idea where they are how can he so conclusivly tell us no one will ever see them?

Care to explain that Mr Hatton?

What we can draw from all this is the photos potentially still exist and Yvonne Gay was the last person we can say with certainty had them (as she took them so must have had them). We dont know what she said to Eddie about them when he asked and we dont know if she destroyed them, kept them or...Maybe...passed them onto someone else....a close family friend perhaps?

We also need to consider why mr Hatton CLEARLY alluded to the presence of a stack of canoes in the background of the photos on a different website but failed to make any mention of them at any point here. Simply brushing people off with comments about the background containing scrubland and little else.

The other point that seems strange is that if mr Hatton is so certain of the uk argument then surely tracking down the unedited photos offers his best and only hope of proving it. Why focus so much effort on debunking the CS claims but so easily dismiss anything about tracking down the photos which could prove what he says and debunk the CS claims at the same time?

If Eddie or mr Hatton wish to contest any of the above i can demonstrate what i am saying with cut and pasted quotes from them.


Philip: it may be that you're a very young man and unable to appreciate the significance and the effects of time, I don't know.

Eddie cannot be expected to remember precisely what was what said about the photos' fate; he only knows they have been 'disposed of' and that we ain't gonna see them again unless a serendipitous finger points us in the right direction. This is not likely, and to hang your hopes on them turning up is unrealistic. Please accept that they're gone. Eddie is a gentleman who knows how far he might reasonably push his questioning of a lady. Please also accept that neither Eddie nor myself can confirm canoes or kayaks in the pic's. Accept too that despite your remote perception of anything and everything written by me and Eddie, we have never been evasive, dishonest, economical with the truth or anything else one might consider to be obstructive: this is merely your distant and very secure interpretation. I have stated on more than one occasion that Eddie and I have nothing to personally gain in all of this and have absolutely no reason whatsoever to be anything but honest. It goes with the job.

Your posts continue to add nothing of any interest or significance to this debate and this has been the case for a very long time now. Please can you reply with some kind of assurance that your future posts will focus on something different - something interesting, significant, pertinent, fresh....something less repetitive? Thank you, Philip.