Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...
Ray said: "Cliff,
Thats a bit rich coming from you, at least Philip isn't changing, who said what, etc etc. You and Eddie have changed your stories round more than once during this debate.
You haven;t given any proof to back up this story, NONE at all, just heresy, nothing more.
You don't like being asked a straight question, and you don't give a straight YES or NO when you are asked.
I don't think you or Eddie know that much about these fish at all, your also going on heresay. If Eddie does know the water, NAME IT. The years have long gone and at least you will give the fm members something to think about by naming the water. Your not going to get anglers running to the water are you.
The fish came from Canada, You or Eddie can not prove otherwise. Maybe you do know the name of the water, and won't tell us, as it's in Canada.
So this thread, along with all the other's are just a Hoax, as is the claim that the fish came from the UK"
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Ray: I have only recently stated my intention to sit back and allow the facts and theories presented to FM readers by Eddie Benham and myself to speak for themselves - unless I felt it absolutely necessary.
Your post (above) makes it necessary for me to ask you to justify your claims. You're clearly committed to establishing the truth about Martin Gay's superb carp-fishing accomplishments so I know you'll be keen to clarify what, exactly, this 'heresy' (sic) is.
Both Eddie and myself knew Martin very, very well indeed, so we have first-hand knowledge of his character: his sense of humour; his likes and dislikes; his very analytical mind; his ability as a fisherman; his love of Nature...you name it. We knew him very well and, contrary to what Paul Selman will tell you, I knew him every bit as well as Robin Monday. Consequently, both Eddie and myself were in the ideal position to either take serious note or to dismiss any hearsay we heard about Martin.
On the wider issue of the carp and their origins, we have - again - had no need to rely on hearsay because Eddie has a wealth of archive material which (you might possibly have noticed, Ray) has thwarted Paul Selman's stories time and time again over recent months. Only a few days back, Paul Selman gave us yet another of his 'assurances' that "Eric Hodson always believed the carp were caught in Canada" - only to be served by Eddie with a direct quote from Hodson stating the exact opposite.
In addition to this, Ray, we both are in possession of the 5 highly readable Coarse Angler articles written by Martin about his historic captures. These accounts cover the 1989 monster + others and the huge 1990 half-ton haul, the former being written before there was ever any mention of Canada. Large parts of these are reproduced here on FM under the title 'Here's the Evidence'. They are quite legible and they explain in detail the circumstances surrounding the fishes' captures over a total of some 5 months in '89 and '90.
The 1990 articles even include verifiable weather conditions.
So, Ray...Eddie and I are in the position of knowing far, far more than, well, everybody else put together (not a boast - just a fact) and, as I often remind readers, we don't lie.
In your next post, Ray, would you be kind enough to expand on your contention that we rely on hearsay? A great many people read these threads so it is important that the information they receive is sound.
Also, you wrote this: "You haven;t given any proof to back up this story, NONE at all, just heresy, nothing more". In your reply, can you also give us your thoughts on Martin's proven attendance of the 1990 Moor Hall committee meeting at a time when Paul Selman reckons he was in Canada catching his 34lb 4oz fish? And can you also give your explanation as to how Martin was able to take some 15-16 days fishing-leave in Canada between June and August, 1990, from his vital university job? Do these two incidences not constitute 'proof' that Martin made his catches in England? If you disagree, Ray, please make your case when you reply. I know that Eddie will be as interested as I.
