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Dave Rothery
Guest
cos waters cheaper
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ian jay
Guest
Dave
I might not be bright, but I can lift heavy weights!
Dooooooooh ;-)
I might not be bright, but I can lift heavy weights!
Dooooooooh ;-)
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Dave Rothery
Guest
LOL!
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ian jay
Guest
Seriously, I used go out with a gal who did put oil in the radiator, and water in the sump. She had a mini once ...
Not too bright, but one hell of a body.
Not too bright, but one hell of a body.
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Cakey
Guest
I knew a bird that had a mini that run as sick as a pig ,she used to pull the choke out and hang her hand bag on it.
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Dave Rothery
Guest
Is that the girl or the car ian with the body?
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Paul Williams
Guest
One of my early cars was a mini...i told a bit of fluff i would drop her in the town centre and pick her up later.......as she opened the door in the midddle of a busy Saturday town the door dropped off.......she wasn't there when i went to collect her!
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Cakey
Guest
what she nicked the door?
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andrew jackson
Guest
I never mentioned compressing water, if water cant change density and viscosity could you please explain away steam and Ice. Water has a atomic weight that is so low that in theory it should be a gas, it isnt a gas because of the actions of hydrogen bonding. The lower the temperature the greater the attraction between the hydrogen and oxygen molicules and the greater the hydrogen bonding. As the molicules bond the liquid becomes less viscous and more dence the extream of this is ice.
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ian jay
Guest
What I said is that you cannot compress water, which is strongly suggested when you offer that air pressure changes the density.
BTW, water does not have an atomic weight, it is not an atom. Oxygen has the atomic weight 16 times greater of hydrogen.
Now, what do you want to talk about next - formula weight, atomic mass unit (amu), molar mass?
BTW, who's theory is it that water should be a gas - The Monks?
;-)
BTW, water does not have an atomic weight, it is not an atom. Oxygen has the atomic weight 16 times greater of hydrogen.
Now, what do you want to talk about next - formula weight, atomic mass unit (amu), molar mass?
BTW, who's theory is it that water should be a gas - The Monks?
;-)
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Ian Grant
Guest
Ian, I'm sorry to have to correct you water,
most definatly can be compressed, i'll give you an example, it the method they use to test diving cylinders, they pump water into the cylinder way past the normal working pressure of the cylinder, and measure the stretch of the metal, it would be to dangerous using air to perform this test,as if the cylinders wall failed an explosion could occur, however i know what you are getting at, as this can be done because the water has nowhere to go so the desity will increase as more water is pumped in.
Air pressure in open air Does exert approx 1kg of pressure at sea level, i think i chose the word density badly, in the sea the variances in air pressure will be negated by the water being able to move lateraly , and in any case air pressure variances are local and are not uniform across the globe, BUT! in an enclosed body of water, the water has nowhere to move , it can't go up unless the air pressure decreases, if air pressure increases so must the pressure it exerts on the waters surface, and so will alter the pressure sub surface as well. to avoid complicating the issue a standard figure of 1 bar of surface pressure is added to that of the ambient water pressure at a given depth in order that a decompression profile can be worked out for a diver at a given depth (all done by computer worn by the diver nowadays) a safety margin is built in to the calculations anyway , so the slight variances of air pressure are of no significance to these calculations, but they are there, So e.g lets assume that on a given day the air pressure over a lake is
900mb - .9 bar at 10 metres the water will exert a pressure of 1 bar = a total of 1.9 bar, however next day the air pressure has altered to 1000mb adding a further .1 of a bar to surface pressure at 10 metres - 30 foot -the pressure would have increased to 2
bar, this increase and decrease in pressure
will affect all compressible objects within a body of water including air spaces within living creatures, also the gases in dissolved solution within the bloodstreams of any living creature, however this will vary in a fish as it alters it's depth anyway, in conclusion Ian you are right that water is not compressible where it is free to move in 3 dimensions ,but where a body of water is confined it's desity will alter according to the surface pressure applied to it, Phew!
most definatly can be compressed, i'll give you an example, it the method they use to test diving cylinders, they pump water into the cylinder way past the normal working pressure of the cylinder, and measure the stretch of the metal, it would be to dangerous using air to perform this test,as if the cylinders wall failed an explosion could occur, however i know what you are getting at, as this can be done because the water has nowhere to go so the desity will increase as more water is pumped in.
Air pressure in open air Does exert approx 1kg of pressure at sea level, i think i chose the word density badly, in the sea the variances in air pressure will be negated by the water being able to move lateraly , and in any case air pressure variances are local and are not uniform across the globe, BUT! in an enclosed body of water, the water has nowhere to move , it can't go up unless the air pressure decreases, if air pressure increases so must the pressure it exerts on the waters surface, and so will alter the pressure sub surface as well. to avoid complicating the issue a standard figure of 1 bar of surface pressure is added to that of the ambient water pressure at a given depth in order that a decompression profile can be worked out for a diver at a given depth (all done by computer worn by the diver nowadays) a safety margin is built in to the calculations anyway , so the slight variances of air pressure are of no significance to these calculations, but they are there, So e.g lets assume that on a given day the air pressure over a lake is
900mb - .9 bar at 10 metres the water will exert a pressure of 1 bar = a total of 1.9 bar, however next day the air pressure has altered to 1000mb adding a further .1 of a bar to surface pressure at 10 metres - 30 foot -the pressure would have increased to 2
bar, this increase and decrease in pressure
will affect all compressible objects within a body of water including air spaces within living creatures, also the gases in dissolved solution within the bloodstreams of any living creature, however this will vary in a fish as it alters it's depth anyway, in conclusion Ian you are right that water is not compressible where it is free to move in 3 dimensions ,but where a body of water is confined it's desity will alter according to the surface pressure applied to it, Phew!
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Ian Grant
Guest
I should have impressed in all that, that the .2 i used as an example in my first post should have been refered to as water pressure not density, and that only in exeptional circumstances can water actually be compressed. In a nutshell air pressure has a measureable effect on water, and though i cannot say how, it's probable i would think that fish like land animals are able in some way to pick up on it in some way.
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ian jay
Guest
It is my understanding that the pressure required to compress water is so great, and the result so small, that for practical reasoning, it is not compressable. That some minimal change in density and viscosity will occur at the bottom of the deepest oceans, I concede. However, in respect to the relatively small depths that we anglers fish in, I suspect that any changes would be either too small to measure, or that any increase in volume due to pressure will be absorbed by the loose substrate, and the fauna.
Interesting and stimulating ...
BTW, I guess you are a diver? I used to run a decompression chamber in the RAF. Which is the opposite of a compression chamber that you would use to treat the 'bends'.
Interesting and stimulating ...
BTW, I guess you are a diver? I used to run a decompression chamber in the RAF. Which is the opposite of a compression chamber that you would use to treat the 'bends'.
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Ian Grant
Guest
I've heard them called both Ian, yes i was a diver though i don't dive now, if there is a definition between the two functions they serve it's that i think when a compression chamber is used for the purposes of keeping a saturation diver at the ambient pressure he's been woking at it is known as a decompression chamber, it's purpose to keep him at the working pressure at which his body has become saturated with gas, a diver who has suffered a bend would be RECOMPRESSED to the pressure that he was diving under, in order to shrink the gas in his blood stream back into solution, and thereby removing the harmful bubbles that would be forming in his bloodstream and tissues, they then start to slowly release pressure at a rate slow enough for the gas to be slowly released from the bloodstream to the lungs and breathed out naturally. i guess if you were a compression chamber operator you would be familiar with all that
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ian jay
Guest
Our chambers reproduced a rarified atmosphere, so that pilots could experience anoxia.
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andrew jackson
Guest
Dr Stephan Mann P.H.D, and a water molicule does have an atomic weight. And you should have no truble explaining if water cant change density and viscosity, then whats the story with Ice and steam? Are you to have us belive that Ice has the same density and viscosity as steam?
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ian jay
Guest
Andrew
Go back to bed, m8. The molecular weight of water is 18. It is a molecule, NOT an atom.
BTW, do you mean Ph.D?
Go back to bed, m8. The molecular weight of water is 18. It is a molecule, NOT an atom.
BTW, do you mean Ph.D?
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Dave Rothery
Guest
Splitting hairs, but atoms have atomic weight, molecules have molecular weight (the sum of their atoms)